[Team] Honda's selling ... but who's buying? [HUGE MERGE]

[wapomumalo]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

Maybe Honda's executives in Japan saw pictures of how ugly next years F1 car's will look and thought, why bother?!!

+1

[duke_toaster]

New thread because it's the consequences of the previous and a single aspect of the issue that could dominate it.

Does anyone have the budget to be able to run an F1 team now, even starting from Honda?

Could this be Prodrive's way in? Or maybe Campos? Team Dubai kinda went dead - will they even manage to sell the team at all?

I think we're in a situation where we need customer cars legalized soon. I think the 2009 F1 season could be split in two. Up to the end of the European season should be ran as normal, then allow customer cars for an F1 Autumn Series to take place with the later races - customer cars being legal for 2010.

[Stefvh]

They did'nt find someone to buy SuperAguri. I think it tells everything.

[Charlies]

It's clearly true that Honda are withdrawing; it's on the BBC, Sky, Reuters, etc

They had problems distinct from most of the manufacturer teams; poor leadership, no significant commercial sponsorship and pathetic results for two consecutive seasons.

Clearly this has only materialised in the last few days or they wouldn't have wasted money testing.

But if they can shutdown so can any other team. Toyota has seen an almost identical fall in sales and may feel less pressure to stay now Honda have gone. Williams are sponsored by several companies that have effectively been nationalised, Renault's commitment is often questioned and Vijay Mallya's been hit hard by the downturn.

This recession/depression is going to hit all of motorsport hard. Audi withdrew from the LMS today, and what happens to NASCAR if there isn't a bailout of the Big Three? Profligate spending can't be justified in this economic climate.

[Down F0rce]

Prodrive are a no go. They were dependant on customer cars and a deal with McLaren. Customer cars are illegal and the McLaren deal has gone to Force India.

I honestly can't think of anyone that could buy the team, let alone have the resources to fund it. Especially as there is only a time frame of a few months to find a buyer and negotiate a sale.

Who knows, maybe Berger could use the money he made from selling Toro Rosso to buy Honda, if he had a suitable partner from a oil-rich country perhaps.

[Down F0rce]

Could we even see these large motorsport championships taking a sabbatical for a year to sort themselves out? Probably not next year of course, but who can tell these days.

[john ruston]

Its business costs that force manufacturers to pull out.It nothing to do with the irrelevant circus that is F1.They need to save money and this is an easy way to save up to 300 million.Expect Toyota,Renault to question their position and Williams cannot expect income from RBS and other odd sponsors.
Frank will not finance it,he never has

In todays climate there is no way a business can substantiate the costs of F1

This is the real world not the nonsense make believe world of F1

Buyers,no chance.More withdrawals are certain.

F1 deserves all these problems .When History and previous experiences are forgotten about, businesses usually fail.They want it to be called a product not a sport,its the road to oblivion unless drastic changes are made

[john ruston]

Why would anyone want to buy.?
Prodrive,Dont you think those people unemployed at AM would have something to say about that.
Of course they will let people run last years cars,there is no alternative

[mjstallard]

No one will be.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Prodrive are a no go. They were dependant on customer cars and a deal with McLaren. Customer cars are illegal and the McLaren deal has gone to Force India.

I honestly can't think of anyone that could buy the team, let alone have the resources to fund it. Especially as there is only a time frame of a few months to find a buyer and negotiate a sale.

Who knows, maybe Berger could use the money he made from selling Toro Rosso to buy Honda, if he had a suitable partner from a oil-rich country perhaps.

Berger knows how things work. Even if the Torro Rosso money nets him Honda (unlikely) he'll have to find funing for the team in less than four months - you can Dream all you like but money doesn't grow on trees on this Earth, and especially not now. All plans based on "if funding can be secured" might as well be ignored for now, because that "if" is a pretty major stumbling block. And Berger won't fund it out of his own pocket, that's (partly) why he left Torro Rosso in the first place.

[Knowlesy]

A real shame, I was looking forward to seeing Honda progressing over the next few years.

Hard economical times, possibly combined with the technical direction F1 may or may not take in the near future. We should have seen this coming, but it's a bolt from the blue.

[ivanalesi]

If someone is going to buy the team, it should be either manufacturer(no chance at all) or some existing sponsor, like Allianz. That's what happened with Red Bull, but I don't see anyone with such a huge marketing budget. May be Pepsico or Coke will go against RBR

[nkh]

Originally Posted by Stefvh

They did'nt find someone to buy SuperAguri. I think it tells everything.

The Honda F1 team must have a lot more going for it than SuperAguri.... and they're probably up for the same price.

[Marbot]

It would be a brave decision to take on Honda's new and unproven car and an even braver one to believe that things will be any different than the past two seasons have been.

No buyer will be found for either STR or Honda,just like no buyer was found for Super Aguri.

I understand that Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are trying to put together a deal to use Ferrari engines if someone does come along.Good luck with that!

[Knowlesy]

Honda will be available very cheap though I'd guess. They have decent resources and a good team in place.

One thing is for sure, Bernie will do all he can to help find a buyer.

Worrying times though, so many teams potentially flirting with disaster right now.

[Marbot]

Apparently the actual team is 'free' to anyone that can keep it running.Which is why Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are eagerly trying to get engines from Ferrari (maybe Ross is pulling a favour on that one) and funds from anyone that's willing to listen.

[OZ_HCR32]

Well teams/people like Frank Williams/Eddie Jordan have been saying for a while that manufacturers owning teams in F1 is a bad thing as when they pull the plug on motorsport teams and grid numbers will dwindle. When they are involved the huge budgets they squander means that the private teams cant compete with the dollar spend so hurt the private teams, but long term do not share the same committment. It seems there fears have finally been realised

Honda have done nothing as a maneuacturer and should have left Prodrive to do what they obviously do better then Honda...most interesting thing will be where to for Button...i cant see anyone jumping to pick up his contract

[Knowlesy]

Yes, the manufacturers are bad in this sense and there have been fears for a long time that they would lose interest.

There is no guarantee that, had the team remained as BAR, they would still be in F1 but they wouldn't be subject to a sudden pulling of the plug by men in suits, thousands of miles away.

The balance of manufacturers and privateers is really not good at the moment. What privateers there are left can't compete either and will soon sink. Williams are in a spot of bother, Force India can't be too solid with the airlines struggling a bit lately, the Red Bull organisation may want to trim its numbers etc...

Renault could be hit by ING's problems, Toyota may just get bored of it all. Depressing stuff.

[JeremySmith]

Honda leaving F1, what a terrible shame I was so looking forward to better days for them, with the acquisition of Ross Brawn..Sad news indeed and more of it to come I fear..

[OZ_HCR32]

Bring back teams with manufacturers as engine suppliers and sponsors. If Honda was still BAR then Honda withdrawl at the last minute means they could at least still go at it next year with the car that has been talked about beign developed since very early 2008... with either the Honda engine frozen or a customer engine in their chassis.

It seems sad that as Honda are the team that they will just pull the rug from under the team because they own everything down to the door mats.

Its a terrible shame that after years of squandering and propping up Sato and Super Aguri etc that Honda cannot accomodate a more sensible spend to maintain their involvement in a limited role. It reeks of poor management just as their time in F1 as a manufacturer

[gregw]

Assuming an engine deal could be done. Who's going to commit the thick end of USD 100m now in the hope the figure falls in 2010 and 2011?

From what I've read Prodrive's Aston Martin business is in takeover talks with Daimler. Apparently the long term development costs of powertrain development are proving to be very high. I really can't see Prodrive operating the Honda F1 team.

[StephenA]

I don't think Lotus would be interested to get back into F1 this way. They're out for me!

[OZ_HCR32]

What happened to Eddie Irvine nad his pack of fellas with cash wanting in on F1?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

What happened to Eddie Irvine nad his pack of fellas with cash wanting in on F1?

That's probably been spent on wine,women and song by now.

[JeremySmith]

And real estate of course..