Plum Pudding races, Merged

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by DriversKnow

I just found this link on youtube....

I think the Saxo driver owes you (and the Jag/Seat drivers) an apology, Tim.

Not sure I agree looking at the video. It just looks like a typical 1st lap rush of **** to the brain racing accident, I wouldn't say the inside car was any more to blame than the VW.
As far as finding parts for the VW, if you aren't willing to put it at risk should you be racing it?

[Robert Morris]

Tim is that the same vw that you put in the armco at brands last year?

[tim dodwell]

Eh? - it's the same Scirocco that got thumped into the armco at Brands in 2006, and thumped again into the armco at this meeting - at the same place as the incident on Utube, but on the restarted race after. Being so engrossed with my problems, I didn't realise how much carnage that guy caused (in the Pug 106 in the first incident), and my sympathies go out to the other drivers that ended up worse off than me. Still would love to know who thumped me into the armco in the restarted race though. If it was the same guy.........

[Tim Falce]

So how does it work when neither of you have the racing line and you leave the other guy with nowhere to go. Should he be expected to take to the grass or back off or should you give him room and take a wider line?
This is not meant to be criticism on either part as it's difficult to see from the video whether he was coming from behind or you were overtaking but I would say that was 50/50, what did the observers or CoC say?

[Al Weyman]

Easy answer, he backs off and if he has a vastly superior car bides his time and takes him at the next opportunity, as Rob says it was meant to be a fun meeting not BTCC.

[Robert Morris]

My bet is no one thumped any body off deliberatly . To much assumption if in doubt give way, saves the tears.

[Al Weyman]

I bet you are right, just a bit of over enthusiasm ending in carnage, as Tim says on Playstation you just press reset and off you go, in reality that crash you just has costs thousands. Maybe in the current climate for 2009 we all ought to rein it in a bit what do you think?

[GORDON STREETER]

How many years ago did they stop the Boxing day meets at Brands ?

[Eddy V]

Here is my (very personal) 2p worth of Observer comment on that incident; and no, I wasn't there.
I would have reported that (from what I can see in the video) it was a racing incident as nobody moves abruptly off line and several cars were running closely together. Contact is easily made in such a case. And especially in such a fast corner.

As far as I remember racing drivers (don't forget I was one too) are just racing drivers, championship meeting or not. Why do you go racing otherwise? I never went racing to "drive" around a track, but to try and beat the guy in front of me.

A very shame that it happened in what should have been a fun meeting. But that is the nature of racing.

[Dave Brand]

Having watched the video several times & stopping it at the appropriate point, all I can say is that the incident was caused by car 83 spinning. In real life an observer doesn't have the luxury of being able to replay an incident. In this instance the Observer would have seen the incident from a worse viewpoint than the point where the video was taken.

Observers can only report what they see; clerks can only act on an Observer's report or a protest.

[snowen250]

Not really commenting on the incedent there, but is that Mallory? The track looks very narrow with no run off really at all, i feel most sorry for the SEAT driver, V heavy damage front and rear.
As for parts for the Scirroco (sic) i'm guessing you already know but i have heard Germany is the best place by far for VW bits (obviously)
Simon

[pdd144c]

Was that Andy Thompson in the SEAT?!

[jonbryant]

Looks like it Paul. His car and his overalls... Just posted that in the DMN thread.

[pdd144c]

Hope he gets it sorted, he's the man to beat I want to beat next year!

[Shalders]

Are the results for this meeting on the web anywhere??

[BJD]

Two (or more!) sides to every story etc, but from the youtube video it looks like everybody would have got around safely if the blue car hadn't turned in on the car that was already half up the indside. Just a little more racing room/respect for other drivers and all of the damage could have been easily avoided. If the OP was driving the blue car, from the youtube video evidence (tho as stated two sides to every story etc) it really doesn't look as if you are in a strong enough position to start throwing stones when you look at the repair bills that the guys behind will be picking up when events were completely out of their control..

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by tim dodwell

Eh? - it's the same Scirocco that got thumped into the armco at Brands in 2006, and thumped again into the armco at this meeting - at the same place as the incident on Utube, but on the restarted race after. Being so engrossed with my problems, I didn't realise how much carnage that guy caused (in the Pug 106 in the first incident), and my sympathies go out to the other drivers that ended up worse off than me. Still would love to know who thumped me into the armco in the restarted race though. If it was the same guy.........

BJD As I have already said please refer to Tim's post above, it was not this incident that was in question dramatic as it was. I wonder if Richard in the Anglia had his camera running he usually does and posts it up.

[Rod Birley]

Last Boxing day meet at Brands was over 25 years ago. It was cancelled due to fog, which lifted as everyone started to leave!!

[chezza]

There is no official timing for this meeting, the races are lap charted to keep track of who is where, so not sure the result will be online anywhere.

[BJD]

I realised that it was a different race Al, just thought it a bit rich that (if the video is taken at face value) this chap had just caused a lot of avoidable damage to other cars and then has a go about somebody elses driving standards causing unneccesary damage to his own car. If you try and close a gap on the inside that already has another car in it the result is almost always that you will get "punted off". Whether other drivers would see the guy who was "punted off" as an innocent victim is very debateable as he/she has left very few realistic options for the driver on the inside to avoid contact.

[chezza]

Ok...whats done is done. We can sit and try and allocate blame and argue about the accident until we are blue in the face, but there is little point, so lets leave it at that shall we.

I just hope, as has already been mentioned that Andy is able to repair/find a new car for DMN in 2009.

[Al Weyman]

I understand where you are coming from but its hard to see exactly what happened, maybe Tim lifted off the gas for the Esses a bit to sooner than the following car, its not quite so clear cut in a race as on the road when if someone punts you up the rear on the road its an open and shut case, they are guilty.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by BJD

....... If you try and close a gap on the inside that already has another car in it the result is almost always that you will get "punted off". Whether other drivers would see the guy who was "punted off" as an innocent victim is very debateable as he/she has left very few realistic options for the driver on the inside to avoid contact.

I'd like to politely but violently disagree;good clean racecraft dictates that the one who is in front can take the racing line, if one is coming from behind then you either get the nose in front and complete the move, or you ease off and try again later. Amateur racing is not BTCC or F1.

[Austinspace75]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

I'd like to politely but violently disagree;good clean racecraft dictates that the one who is in front can take the racing line, if one is coming from behind then you either get the nose in front and complete the move, or you ease off and try again later. Amateur racing is not BTCC or F1.

Yep, you're absolutely right.... if you're in front you can claim the racing line.

The question being raised here is whether it is wise to do so. Not 'whether you are in the right'.

In this instance, there seems no doubt that the Peugeot driver caused the situation to arise, but the consequences were in the control of both drivers. This was the first lap of a big grid club event... Not making some space (regardless of whether you 'should' or not) is contrary to the nature of the event.

Amateur racing, as you say, is not BTCC or F1. It is always best to give a little when in close quarters... especially when it's your rear-end that is going to get punted round.

Tim, I do hope you get that car back together ok.. Its a mighty little beast!

(From someone who's had the pleasure of being passed by it both on the track and on the motorway going home... complete with cheery toot-toot from your good self!)

Hope to see you out again soon mate,
Tom.

[tim dodwell]

Thank you MGDavid. Also, if you study the Utube carefully, you should notice that the Pug has it's drivers side wheels on the slippery edge of the track. By putting himself in that position, the outcome was almost inevitable. When he hit the brakes, only the wheels on the other side slowed his car - so it turned left into my Scirocco, which of course was also braking. This of course tipped it sideways, but I am glad to say I regained control without slewing across the track as expected. The others then crashed swerving to avoid where they thought my car would end up. A reckless action by one person thus caused carnage to the other poor drivers, plus a dent to the Scirocco's rear wheel arch on the drivers side.
My original comments were directed to my feelings now on the idea of reversed grids, and I was personally more affected by the incident in the restarted race - where I was punted into the armco. I think I now know who caused that, but still await more proof.
When I have time (and find out how to) I hope to download my on-board video onto Utube, which should help to silence a certain individual. Is he a mate of the Pug driver?