New Safety Car Regs

[Nighthawk]

3.14.4 When the order is given to deploy the Safety Car a waved yellow flag and “SC” board will be displayed at the start/finish line. The waved yellow flags and “SC” boards will flow around the circuit in both directions, as an adjacent post displays both their waved yellow flag and “SC” board. This system may be supplemented by a message being simultaneously broadcast to all marshals’ posts if such a communication system is available.


I suppose its how you interpret this........

[Grandslammer]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

now i was told yesterday in training that it then goes back to a stationary and waved when the s/c is in your sector.

This is where the 'professional look' of Marshalling falls on its face,some posts will follow the rules to the letter,some might revert to the previous method and others might stop waving for the restbreak
...and for anything that might gain tv coverage, 'interesting' viewing too

[gachjoel]

Now thats what i was thinking,
interpret it as you like.

maybe someone will clarify this......one day

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by C9/89

I know there may be some help from Incident marshals for this but it isnt always possible due to a lack of spare bods!

or if you have the incident thats caused the safety car and the rest of the team is attending!

[Woolley]

Seems pretty clear from the definition that they're waved at all times (or fluttered if you're tired). There's certainly nothing to suggest going to the old method of stationery except when you've got the train.

Basically three changes:
SC and yellows go both ways (hooray)
Wave the yellow always (not so hooray)
When the yellow comes in, wave the green for a lap.

Only just thought about that last one. If you go waved green because the boards have come in, that means you're waving it when they're not racing, but not when they are because you'll have done the lap by then. Can we clarify exactly when we should be withdrawing the green. When the leader gets back to you? When the last car gets to you (as now) which means effectively you've waved that one for two laps?

[Nighthawk]

Seema pretty clear to me....
As for Geen flag not so sure on that one.....

all we do now is lets wait and see how things pan out at the meetings.....

[Nighthawk]

As the Safety Car is approaching the pit entry, the green flag will be displayed at the start/finish line and the “SC” board withdrawn. Following this display of the start signal yellow flags and “SC” boards at the marshals posts will be withdrawn and be replaced with a waved green flag for one lap. The waved green flag will flow around the circuit in both directions, as an adjacent post displays their waved green flag. This system may be supplemented by a message being simultaneously broadcast to all marshals’ posts if such a communication system is available. Overtaking remains strictly forbidden until the start signal at the start/finish line is passed.


Anyone see the flaw in this?

[The STIG]

Do you mean the flaw which suggests that as soon as the waved green is shown, racing will continue? thus causing chaos?

[Nighthawk]

Yes....The cars not passed start/finish line will see green flags.....And the Red mist will fall...

[gachjoel]

i e mailed the MSA last night for clarification on the yellow flag,
and as woolley has stated to,the yellow does remain waved during the safety car intervention.

[Clive]

think I'll light another banger as no-one else has raised this point yet - 3.14.6 says no overtaking or OVERLAPPING is forbidden. With all the weaving and braking under SC with the cars in the train no more than 5 car lengths apart, we will need at least another two sets of eyes and binoculars to check this overlapping. At what extent does it become reportable? fully alongside? half a car length? 1/4? 10cm? What???

[Nighthawk]

I had noticed this......But still trying to work it all out..

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by Clive

think I'll light another banger as no-one else has raised this point yet - 3.14.6 says no overtaking or OVERLAPPING is forbidden. With all the weaving and braking under SC with the cars in the train no more than 5 car lengths apart, we will need at least another two sets of eyes and binoculars to check this overlapping. At what extent does it become reportable? fully alongside? half a car length? 1/4? 10cm? What???

I would put this down to the Obs discretion.
if someone is falling back excessively,then put the report in,
but the problem you will get then is you have no solid evidence to back the written report.
i guess its gonna be another one of them trial & error situations

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Can we clarify exactly when we should be withdrawing the green. When the leader gets back to you? When the last car gets to you (as now) which means effectively you've waved that one for two laps?

excellent point Wooley, that doesn't seem to have been coved AND is the green flag taken in BOTH ways as well?

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

Yes....The cars not passed start/finish line will see green flags.....And the Red mist will fall...

yippee, now we can report cars for overtaking under a green flag

[Chris Hobson]

As chair of the working group that developed these changes to the safety car regs, I will repeat an earlier post. If anyone has any queries as to interpretation of the regs then please e-mail me and i will give you the definitive answer.

Yellows - as it says continuous waved - the whole circuit is under caution.

The greens go both ways when the yellow and safety car boards are removed from the start line and they wave their green flag.

No overtaking until your car has passed the start signal on the start/finish line is absolutely clear. The green flags mean the obstructions are removed and the circuit is clear.

Whilst behind the safety car no competitor can perform any maneuver that endangers others - that includes excessive weaving, slowing down, speeding up - the aim is to get everyone to maintain a constant pace 5 car lengths apart.

It is not rocket science!

Yes - Post Chiefs will interpret what excessive means, yes, competitors will try to gain advantage - that is how it has always been.

At the top of the regs it states that they must be used by all clubs for all events - and they are NOT open to interpretation or change - and, I am sorry guys (and gals) that means us too - we apply the procedure as written and if anyone has a problem with that I suggest they give me a call.

I will be at the BMMC South Mids training day on Saturday when this is one of the discussion points - I will gladly answer all and any questions people have.

I ask just one thing - use the procedure as written - if there are problems in implementation, then let me know immediately and I will follow up any and all problems

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Do you mean the flaw which suggests that as soon as the waved green is shown, racing will continue?

Actually, I can't see the problem with that (other than it not being in the rules), but if it's safe to race, and the green flags's out, I say go race. It's what happens on rolling start.

Originally Posted by The STIG

thus causing chaos?

I once saw an observer put in a report that said 'Everything was fine and then the green light came on'

Originally Posted by Chris Hobson

As chair of the working group that developed these changes to the safety car regs, I will repeat an earlier post. If anyone has any queries as to interpretation of the regs then please e-mail me and i will give you the definitive answer.

My bad, Chris, sorry. I typed as I thought instead of thinking about what I was typing. And thinking about it, since the green comes out as the leader approaches the start the thought I had didn't apply. I think. Where's Dr Seuss when you need him.

I'm actually looking forward to the first time I get to use this lot in action with there now being a strong possibility that most posts will do the same thing and the others will catch up. There have been times in the past where I've watched flaggies all trying to work out which version the post next to them was using and deciding whether to try to copy it.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Chris Hobson

If anyone has any queries as to interpretation of the regs then please e-mail me and i will give you the definitive answer.

I'll post here, rather then emailing, as I think it is of interest to everyone.

The only point I am not clear on is when the greens are withdrawn.
Is this withdrawn at the start at some point and then goes round both ways
or just one way (behind the last car, or immediately when seen)
or should we just withdraw it after what we think is the last car goes past
or the second time the first car comes round

My guess is that it goes round one way from the start behind the last car, in which case, what should we do if a yellow needs to go out in the first lap - is it just then a case of using our better judgement? - e.g. if a yellow goes out at post 4, post 5 goes to stationary green, and post 6 withdraws the waved green when what is believed to be the last car passes?

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

My guess is that it goes round one way from the start behind the last car, in which case, what should we do if a yellow needs to go out in the first lap - is it just then a case of using our better judgement? - e.g. if a yellow goes out at post 4, post 5 goes to stationary green, and post 6 withdraws the waved green when what is believed to be the last car passes?

Now I'm confused!!!!!!

If you read Chris's post and apply it literally, it makes sense completely. I think that ALL regions will publish the full ruling in their newsletters shortly. But the proof will come, as Woolley said, when we use the new regs for the first time.

[Rob Williams]

I think that it is most important that a set of the regs are given out at sign-on. not every one is on 10/10s or a BMMC member.

[SWCRacing]

Not all series / championships have the provision for a safety car in their regulations. I believe where there is provision, then the regs should be available at sign-on. Failing that, drivers could always go to the new driver briefing!!!

[Col_Rugby]

I'm more concerned that some "circuits" are going to adopt there own interpretations .
As for the green flag "bring it in problem" I would say it stays out until you see the lead car coming back round after it has completed 1 racing lap.
Surely this has got to be what everyone wanted, a uniformed procedure.
Lets give it a chance to bed in & if problems arise then raise the issue, not dismiss it straight away.

[Chris Hobson]

The green flags should be out for one lap as at present, then withdrawn when the leader approaches on their second flying lap.

If an incident occurs on the restart lap the procedure is the standard one for any incident- i.e.
Major incident - flag point withdraws green and waves yellow - post upstream withdraws green and displays stationary yellow, flag point downstream keeps green flag out until waved yellow is withdrawn.
Minor incident - flag point removes green and displays stationary yellow, post upstream shows green until end of first lap (as already described), post downstream displays green until stationary yellow is withdrawn.

[Guinness2702]

Well, they got tried out today at Silverstone.

The first time went a bit wrong, as I think there was an early radio call to put out green flags, with the safety car still out on circuit, and there were definitely some yellows that weren't so much waved as wind-assisted, when the sectors were empty, but otherwise, seemed to go okay.

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

Well, they got tried out today at Silverstone.

The first time went a bit wrong, as I think there was an early radio call to put out green flags, with the safety car still out on circuit, and there were definitely some yellows that weren't so much waved as wind-assisted, when the sectors were empty, but otherwise, seemed to go okay.

Yes the new system did work well, but as you said the first time a wrong call went out from R/C., but otherwise very good.