Button to stay

[Tucky]

I've looked at more of the news pieces about the new contracts and it seems that JB has a 2 year contract as well. I thought it would be for one year with Magnussen taking over in 2016. I wonder whether Magnussen would stick around with McLaren for two years or look elsewhere for a seat.

[CTD]

I've heard it as a One year with one year option.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

There's a general knee-jerk rookie worship. People bellyaching about how awful it was Barrichello and Schumacher kept going on.

I would qualify it somewhat by saying that testing restrictions means that more seasoned campaigners are being unduly favoured - and that's not appropriate.

But I'm also of the school of thought that says older drivers can have alot to offer and are often the better choice over the latest hotshot. This isn't stressed enough.

Here Magnussen is still tethered to Mclaren for future recall whilst Button and Alonso can provide in-depth feedback on what is a period of transition for Mclaren. It's the optimum arrangement.

I like this post, because I think you are right... One term I have always never cared for is "past it's user date" ...These two guys are serious in the talent department.....

[Razzzor]

Whether it's right or wrong, I'm disappointed to see kmag on the sidelines for 2015. Button's been around a while, but actually he's only 34, not really retirement age. He's the same age and started in F1 almost the same time Dixon started in Indycars, and you can't say Dixon is taking up youngters racing seats.

But for some reason I do think Button is well past his prime. I wouldn't be surprised if the Alonso-Button partnership is the same as Alonso-Kimi/Massa, in that Button fails to ever beat Alonso. But it will be interesting to see the old boys in the same team, and a team that isn't wound around Alonso's little finger. Button will need to be driving like he was at the end of the last season in 2015, not doing his usual early/mid-season Sunday drives.

Where's this leave Vandoorne now, I wonder. McLaren have two fantastic young drivers with nowhere to put them. Nice one guys. Perhaps they should lend Vandoorne to Torro Rosso, I'm sure he'll beat Sainz jr and Verstappen jr.

[Skam85]

Funny, I seem to remember people saying how Hamilton will blow Button out of the water as well.

And we all know how that ended.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im not a doctor but im pretty sure addiction is a disease but me not being a doctor is not really the point.

also i question this notion of JB as the sponsor dream guy.

put KM in a Honda badge car for a year and he will become a favorite to the Japanese pubic. sponsors like TAG and Hugo Boss are loyal to the team not to Button.

in terms of commitment sponsors show to their driver of choice, Button is certainly no Alonso and to my knowledge Button has never been a guy who brings much sponsorship to his team anyways. he is friendly and has a nice smile but i am at loss to understand why he is now being touted as a sponsor magnet.

beer:

Neither am I a doctor but I simply think medical sickness IS different from Psychological sickness. Both need attention but they are not the same thing.


I think the idea is simply people wanting to present an argument to support 'their man's' inclusion in the team. It is more an opinion about the way they perceive him than any real selling quality - other than the fact that if I like Button I might want to wear something he wears....

[mikuni]

I feel like if it is a rainy season we will all be singing Buttons praises and if it is a drier season, everyone will be saying McLaren made a mistake. I remember a few years back when it was a particularly wet summer and almost every Asian-European race had some level of moisture over the weekend, Button performed well in the early-mid part of the season. I was trying to find statistics on wet races but I haven't been able to find a reliable easy to read source.

I'm hoping for a wet season.

[VIVA GT]

I don't think it's a level playing field to compare McLaren with Red Bull Racing. RBR have the ideal opportunity to nurture & develop their young talent slightly out of the spotlight and away from the pressure in their junior team of STR. They are also completely aware of how these young guys are doing. If/when one of the young hotshoes is showing good, as long as there's a seat available, they can move up into the top team of RBR. If the young talent doesn't mature into what was hoped, they can be quietly (or maybe not so quietly) discarded.
McLaren do not have the advantage of an 'under-team', so do not have the opportunity to see how their young drivers develop before entering the pressure cooker of the top team. This means that the risk to them is far greater when trying out young drivers.
Next season will be a developing/learning year for McLaren Honda and as such, will be better off with consistent quality drivers who should have the experience be able to bring the cars home, instead of a fiesty young chap (and I'm not necessarily saying that KM is like this, but it's a principle) who may be spectacularly fast one week, but throw his car into the wall (or worse still, his team mate) the next.
Ultimately, I am sure that it would be greatly beneficial to Honda in particular for another (more junior) team to be involved too. That team would obviously double the number of engines on the grid, so twice as much learning/experience about the PSU package, plus (if Honda are providing the engines either free, or greatly subsidised) they could place the younger drivers with this team for a year or so in the STR style to help them gain experience and see how they develop.

[Knowlesy]

McLaren really need to setup a junior team. Let's face it, the whole enterprise is vastly over inflated and swollen so they may as well.

The problem isn't that they have kept Button. That is sane, if boring. He is a safe driver and he and Alonso are a formidable team.

The problem is simply chucking away rookies after one season.

Magnussen has basically learned the ropes this year. He hasn't impressed me as much as I hoped, but there were still many flashes of promise. He should be going into winter testing looking to build on the lessons of 2014 and putting that fresh experience into practice in the coming season. Now or never. Time to shine.

Instead he is going to be sat in Woking driving pretend cars on a large flatscreen. Back to square one he goes. It's all well and good being a reserve driver, but this isn't 2000. He isn't Olivier Panis, pounding round Barcelona every day of the year, and he won't be Anthony Davidson doing every GP Friday because, you know, good luck getting Alonso to give up practice sessions. Alonso himself had a year out, but he was a tester (unlimited) for Renault with a guaranteed plum raceseat for 2003.

All in all, taking Magnussen on was a pointless exercise for both parties. Youth is the future of the sport, like it or not, and youth needs the chance to grow. McLaren haven't allowed that and it is a bit of a shame, as much as I quite like JB and do appreciate experience. But for me, the ideal blend in a team is youth and experience. Master and apprentice.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

McLaren really need to setup a junior team. Let's face it, the whole enterprise is vastly over inflated and swollen so they may as well.

The problem isn't that they have kept Button. That is sane, if boring. He is a safe driver and he and Alonso are a formidable team.

The problem is simply chucking away rookies after one season.

Magnussen has basically learned the ropes this year. He hasn't impressed me as much as I hoped, but there were still many flashes of promise. He should be going into winter testing looking to build on the lessons of 2014 and putting that fresh experience into practice in the coming season. Now or never. Time to shine.

Instead he is going to be sat in Woking driving pretend cars on a large flatscreen. Back to square one he goes. It's all well and good being a reserve driver, but this isn't 2000. He isn't Olivier Panis, pounding round Barcelona every day of the year, and he won't be Anthony Davidson doing every GP Friday because, you know, good luck getting Alonso to give up practice sessions. Alonso himself had a year out, but he was a tester (unlimited) for Renault with a guaranteed plum raceseat for 2003.

All in all, taking Magnussen on was a pointless exercise for both parties. Youth is the future of the sport, like it or not, and youth needs the chance to grow. McLaren haven't allowed that and it is a bit of a shame, as much as I quite like JB and do appreciate experience. But for me, the ideal blend in a team is youth and experience. Master and apprentice.

Surely setting up a junior team will create more overinflation. Mclaren should do what they have been doing - that's bankrolling drivers from early in the ladder. Junior teams are an extravagance really.

The day-to-day purpose in setting up channels of succession - is to provide teams with options. It's not supposed to bind teams and reduce options. The value is having a range of options, when an option is declined that not wasting anything. The ultimate master is whether it serves the team and Alonso and Button has best placed to capture those points.

Alonso being released and going to them was actually a peculiar event and Mclaren have moved to maximise that opportunity. Magnussen would've been retained otherwise. Whether fans think Button is "boring" not a worthy consideration. It could actually be a good fight between the duo.

[Knowlesy]

My point was they are already overinflated, so what difference an extra junior team? It was a facetious point.

Hell, they already run their deeply disorganised, sponsorless team with ideas way above its station from a base the size of New Hampshire (which they can't afford to staff and run to anything like its capacity these days I suspect).

And they are so desperate to get a truly top rung driver these days that they have let Alonso come back with a full beard and probably paid him whatever he wants, whilst slashing the loyal Button's wages down to a tenner a week and a packet of crisps. I can hear the gritting of teeth from Ron here in Wallingford.

McLaren are flailing around all over the place and this revolving door for their second driver is further evidence. Although perhaps now they can settle down, until Ron decides he still doesn't like Button this time next year and Alonso goes back to Ferrari or whatever.

[Aysedasi]

Well Knowlesy, you may be right. As right as your sig was......... (But I appreciate the humility! )

[Knowlesy]

Funny you should mention that Ayse. I've been doing a lot of thinking about that prediction.

And you know what?

I was pretty much spot on.

I simply got the drivers the wrong way round. Two words wrong in a sentence over forty words long - that's a hit rate of over 90%. By anyone's standards that is simply outstanding.

[m355y]

I think Button will do pretty well in 2015 if the car's quick enough. I don't sense any drop-off in his pace over the last couple of seasons. While you could legitimately say Raikkonen is a couple of tenths off his 2005 prime, and that Webber was lacking slightly towards the end (see also Coulthard, etc), Jenson is different. He's maybe ALWAYS lacked a tenth compared to the fastest drivers, but makes up for it by being smooth, clever, intelligent and consistent. He's no different now to what he was in 2006. If anything he's better, in terms of his racecraft and standing in his teams.

His 2014 season was almost Alonso-like in terms of dragging a slightly off the pace car to good results. Those off days where he was lost on setup and thrashed by Lewis or even Barrichello seem to be a thing of the past. Give him a quicker car and I'm convinced he can - and will - still win. Ditching him after a season as good as 2014 would have been a real shame. On the other hand Magnussen obviously has good ability but Melbourne aside never caught the eye as much even maybe as Perez did the year before.

I thought it was harsh on Perez to be dumped after 2013, Magnussen this year less so.

[Knowlesy]

He had loads of off days.

He was practically missing in action throughout the mid-season.

He ended the year superbly, which is what has saved him. Magnussen tailed off at the end as well.

[Quartermiler]

I also think Jenson is getting better as a driver each year and has several good years ahead of him, if he's retained.

I remember many people writing him off just before he won the championship and the doubters when he was teamed with Lewis.

I also think he'll do just fine against FA in 2015. I doubt very much he will be embarrassed by him.

It was McLaren who lost their way mid season, not Jenson, as was pointed out in interviews at the time. When the car got better, he got better.

He's a quality driver and a fierce competitor from what I've seen of him.

[steve_r]

Certainly the performance of this team will be one of the more interesting points at the beginning of next year. The combination of what has recently been a bit of a sleeping giant of a team, with the return of Honda and the return of Alonso, really intrigues me. It's an unknown as to how they will get on compared with the others.

[m355y]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

He had loads of off days.

He was practically missing in action throughout the mid-season.

He ended the year superbly, which is what has saved him. Magnussen tailed off at the end as well.

Really? He had a string of points finishes and scored more points in the middle third of the season than he did in the first or third.

Sorry, he did very well this season in my humble opinion.

[sparkione]

[QUOTE=Knowlesy;3484366]

And they are so desperate to get a truly top rung driver these days that they have let Alonso come back with a full beard and probably paid him whatever he wants, whilst slashing the loyal Button's wages down to a tenner a week and a packet of crisps.

Eight million quid p.a, actually. I could rub by on that, and JB already has more than he knows what to do with. He doesn't care about the money.

[wnut]

[QUOTE=sparkione;3484448]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

And they are so desperate to get a truly top rung driver these days that they have let Alonso come back with a full beard and probably paid him whatever he wants, whilst slashing the loyal Button's wages down to a tenner a week and a packet of crisps.

Eight million quid p.a, actually. I could rub by on that, and JB already has more than he knows what to do with. He doesn't care about the money.

Button wearing a beard, or ugly stubble, when he knows it hacks off his team principle is probably also not the brightest either, I wonder how many million that gesture cost him.

[Derwent Motorsp]

Part of the wider problem is that there are only 20 drives around and perhaps half of those are as a result of bringing money in to get the seat. Thus only 10 or 12 seats based on merit. But the big BUT is that the feeder series are bringing in a steady stream of youngsters eager for an F1 place.
If the two TR drivers have an average age of 19 next year they could easily have a 15 year career in F1 or do you assume that has they have already raced for 12 years in karts etc then they retire before they are 30 having run out of motivation and are already rich?
I was at a Downing Street reception last month and there around a dozen of our teenage rising stars there. They will have already spent half their lives racing and no doubt their parents will have spend small fortunes already, but how many will make it to F!? Possibly none.......

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

I was at a Downing Street reception last month and there around a dozen of our teenage rising stars there. They will have already spent half their lives racing and no doubt their parents will have spend small fortunes already, but how many will make it to F!? Possibly none.......

There are other things to do. It's a bit like the wannabees who go on X Factor or Britain's (Theoretically) Got Talent - if they don't get through, you'd think their lives were over.... Pinnacles, spinnacles........

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

Part of the wider problem is that there are only 20 drives around and perhaps half of those are as a result of bringing money in to get the seat. Thus only 10 or 12 seats based on merit. But the big BUT is that the feeder series are bringing in a steady stream of youngsters eager for an F1 place.
If the two TR drivers have an average age of 19 next year they could easily have a 15 year career in F1 or do you assume that has they have already raced for 12 years in karts etc then they retire before they are 30 having run out of motivation and are already rich?
I was at a Downing Street reception last month and there around a dozen of our teenage rising stars there. They will have already spent half their lives racing and no doubt their parents will have spend small fortunes already, but how many will make it to F!? Possibly none.......

The problem is that F1 has been dumbed down to the point where it no longer requires the drivers to be the best of the best. Other sports do not have the problem that their is nowhere for the youngsters to go because talent is the differentiator, if you are good enough there is a place for you, Basketball, cricket, soccer, rugby, tennis.

F1 is no longer a talent based sport, it is a business, pure and simple.

[Quartermiler]

Hopefully things will get slightly better when Haas arrive, and it looks fairly positive regarding Audi too.

Just those two teams could make a difference, as I can't see either not wanting top talent in their seats.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Quartermiler

Hopefully things will get slightly better when Haas arrive, and it looks fairly positive regarding Audi too.

Just those two teams could make a difference, as I can't see either not wanting top talent in their seats.

Excuse me? Audi? Do you have a link to the latest on that?

I won't have confidence in either until they line up on the grid at race #1 '16.