Is this now a dying championship?

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

What do we have to do Cowboy, make you take an oath??

What do you mean by this?

[norman-normal]

I thought you were a true CC fan, I didn't think a little heat would keep you away, ( I have been told attempts at humor are sometimes, unusual)

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

I thought you were a true CC fan, I didn't think a little heat would keep you away, ( I have been told attempts at humor are sometimes, unusual)

Oh I am a die-hard Champ Car fan, but my stomach turning, utter dislike for the series called irl, has a tendancy to get me warnings. So I come back once and a while but not too often, I hang out at a more relaxed setting that allows me to speak my mind.

I did catch the humor, and had a laugh, I just wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly.

[simonfa]

Originally Posted by Matski

heh heh all BMW drivers.. wicked

anyway

What about A1GP?

How many drivers did A1GP least/this year, and have also driven/tested for F1 this year... Speed and Jani are the only two that spring to mind but I know there where more.

Maybe A1 would make a good feeder series for F1... I have started watching CHAMP, IRL & NASCAR this year for the first time... Champcar isn't bad, NASCAR is fairly entertaining... but IRL is boring as hell, don't get me wrong - I can see the challenge but as something to watch on TV there is no event or spectacle.... however much of an anti-climax an F1 race is, at least they look like something big is going down. As a casual viewer to IRL my impression is that not many cars start, a few crash, and there aren't many finishers, the only interesting overtaking goes on in the last two corners, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of atmosphere.

Out of F1, A1, CCWS, IRL, NASCAR, GP2 and WTCC. My preference for viewing would be F1, WTCC, A1, NASCAR, GP2, CCWS, IRL, in that order (GP2 is only higher up than Champ because I've met 2 GP2 drivers!)

I think as much as i know some of you would disaggree GP 2 would be my fav to watch sometimes ! did anyone see the GP 2 race from magny cour ? far better than the F1 race that followed and time after time this has happened this year just before the F1 race so the powers that be cant blame the circuit or the designing of the corners for the car as GP 2 manage more than ok and come up with an exciting race too !

[luke]

Nice to see you posting again normal-normal and Cowboy.....

[luke]

Well Foyt is handing over his IRL team (also NASCAR) to his sun Larry because of health problems.
You could say it could long term put the team in jeopedy.

[racer69]

Why would it be putting the team in jeopedy?

[luke]

Why could it not be?

[Hazza]

Err...because maybe Larry is as qualified or more than AJ?

[luke]

What's to say he is? IMO long term it could put the team in jeopedy.

[Hazza]

What is to say he isn't? It's a non-point.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Hazza

What is to say he isn't? It's a non-point.

My point and opinion is long term how it will ensure team AJ Foyt is still operating in the IRL with being handed down to Larry?

[marcus]

I dont think it really matters who is running the team , as long as th team is still there.

Larry May just pull up stumps and go elswhere or he may stick with the Indycar series long term.

its not a problem until that day arrives

[drdisque]

I think Larry is more in tune with what the team needs to be competetive having driven for it as well as travelling around with his various NASCAR forays.

I think he knows he needs to be a 2 car team to compete as well as hiring an engineer to be with them the whole season.

[racer69]

The team would be in more jeopedy if AJ wasn't handing more of the reigns over to someone else.

[marcus]

sadly of late it would seem that way racer69

[Xpunk75]

I know alot of people have been saying don't finger point, it's not going to do anything, the import thing is to get the merge done. Well I'm sorry but were not Robots, were Human beings with feelings, and alot of feelings were damaged when TG had his vision. I think it's dumb to sit here and pretend like it was everyones fault that was involved with the running of the IndyCar series which ended up spliting, when you have entire forums dedicated to the hatred of the man with the Vision that destoryed what they loved.

The 1979 to 1995 Indy Car Series was loved by both IRL and Champ Car fans and thats one thing we have in common, and thats what we should build on. Our love for what pulled us into this sport. If we demand enough that we want our love back then maybe the people in charge will listen, but in order to do this fans on both sides need to start putting pressure on the owners. Bring signs to the races demanding a unifide series. Send complaint letters non-stop, Call into wind tunnel, start a petition. These are all productive things that can be done besides sitting here on a neutral forum trying to point fingers.

Thats just what I think.

[jhansen]

We bought a new entertainment center recently. In the process of sorting through our DVDs and tapes I stumbled on a race tape that included the 1998 IRL race from Phoenix. They had a grid of 28 cars with 31 cars attempting to qualify. I enjoyed watching the tape. The grid definitely didn’t “look” as quality as today’s grid, but the racing was good. And watching 28 cars take the green was definitely a cool sight. Scott Sharp won with Tony Stewart giving chase.

I read through this thread again, but see no plausible cures for what ails the IRL. I think it was JohnSSC that said "we are where we are." How true. In hindsight, perhaps jumping at the manufacturer money (and luring in Ganassi/Penske) was not such a hot idea. The original IRL vision was not so bad. It just needed more time. NASCAR spent decades building it’s product into what it is today. And for the longest time it was not even mainstream. How times have changed in that respect.

I'd say that it's safe to assume that an open-wheel merger will not happen in the foreseeable future. In that sense, the IRL needs to do what it can to survive. And in order to survive, it needs to build on its strengths and differentiate its product from CCWS. So, would a return to the original IRL vision be a good thing? Simpler cars, cost effective, larger schedule, local drivers with some international flair, and the Indy 500 as the crown jewel.

[luke]

Incidentally I stumbled upon an old tape of Gateway 2001. There was around 26 cars, good racing, nice battle between Sam Hornish Jr and Al Unser Jr and nice to see a full grid as there will probably be ten less cars of that grid back then for this year.
But back then there was literally no talent at all. 2002 there started to get some good talent and that was mainly because of the CART teams following the Engines, a chain reaction..

Whatever happens now is what happens but the IRL made more sense back then as it was all ovals, all American, new talent and from the 'grass roots' vision wise.

[JohnSSC]

There was plenty of "talent" back in 2001. They might not be names you recognize or have come to know or think of as "talent" today, but there were some pretty good racers in that group.

The takeaway here though is that when we look at these "old" tapes we have to remember that no series, and certainly neither IRL/CC have remained "static" or faithful to any particular philosophy.

Not only have they (open wheel racing's "leadership") not kept their eye on the ball, they seemingly have trouble determining which ball they wish to focus on. For as much as IRL may have moved from the original plan, CC is no longer the place to go to see racers master all disciplines of open wheel racing: short oval, superspeedway, road and street racing.

We are where we are. The why isn't even really important anymore. I am wondering if where open wheel ends up will be anything more than a footnote to a story of how defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory.

The whole scene has been taken directly from the "Planning For Failure Manual."

[cptkablamo]

I wrote an article back a few years comparing the plight of the IRL to the plight of CCWS and basically I couldn't believe how similar the paths of the 2 series were...and even more surprised that IRL management failed to see this. It is stupid how the IRL has gone. They saw Japanese money and burnt so many bridges with those who built them up and were with them from the start. So like CCWS, when the Japanese money left, no one was left to pick up the series and no one had any money. I can't believe that so many copies of the 'Planning for Failure Manual" were sold

I think a merger is needed but will not happen any time soon. So to be reasonable I think the IRL needs to go back to 1999 and see what they were doing and do that. It was an entertaining series. I do believe the two series can live side by side with a 1999 spec IRL and seemingly a 2007 CCWS series. Both are cheap both have clear ideals and appeal to different types of people. I mean you have enough people over in the states to watch genuine series. Neither series will be world beaters and should aim for about a Grand Am level of esteem and they will survive...and I would be happy, cause I get double the races to follow...

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

There was plenty of "talent" back in 2001. They might not be names you recognize or have come to know or think of as "talent" today, but there were some pretty good racers in that group.

The takeaway here though is that when we look at these "old" tapes we have to remember that no series, and certainly neither IRL/CC have remained "static" or faithful to any particular philosophy.

Not only have they (open wheel racing's "leadership") not kept their eye on the ball, they seemingly have trouble determining which ball they wish to focus on. For as much as IRL may have moved from the original plan, CC is no longer the place to go to see racers master all disciplines of open wheel racing: short oval, superspeedway, road and street racing.

We are where we are. The why isn't even really important anymore. I am wondering if where open wheel ends up will be anything more than a footnote to a story of how defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory.

The whole scene has been taken directly from the "Planning For Failure Manual."

I agree John apart from your first quote...

There was around the same talent as there was since the start of the series. Apart from a few drivers who were at the back in CART they were the leading drivers in the IRL. Other then that very thin talent up to when I said around 2002 definitely 2003 when you could say it was about even with CART at that point when some of the CART teams followed the engines on over as did the drivers...There was a few good racers, but just a few, the rest was lackluster talent. The IRL IMHO started to get credibility when this happened.
Its all very well saying they were good in their own right on the ovals but hey, the 2000 Indy 500, all the CART drivers filled up all the top places in qualifying I seem to remember and Montoya dominated the race...

[BootsOntheSide]

A couple of encouraging bits of news recently, such as the switch to renewable fuel, but it means little unless the car count will be good. What are the latest updates?

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by luke

I agree John apart from your first quote...

There was around the same talent as there was since the start of the series. Apart from a few drivers who were at the back in CART they were the leading drivers in the IRL. Other then that very thin talent up to when I said around 2002 definitely 2003 when you could say it was about even with CART at that point when some of the CART teams followed the engines on over as did the drivers...There was a few good racers, but just a few, the rest was lackluster talent. The IRL IMHO started to get credibility when this happened.
Its all very well saying they were good in their own right on the ovals but hey, the 2000 Indy 500, all the CART drivers filled up all the top places in qualifying I seem to remember and Montoya dominated the race...

and i'll think you'll find that a certain Buddy Lazier finished second that year, beat all the other CART drivers and ran JPM very close

JPM was in at Ganassi, loads of cash

Lazier was at Hemelgarn - Not much cash

a fine effort from Buddy

people tend to forget all those facts about that years race

[climb]

Well spotted, JPM 's win was mostly due to faster pitstops: 12 sec totally saved, and a win by 6 secs if memory serves me.