Group A Toyota Corolla History (merged) - Page 4

**chunterer** · 14 Aug 2008, 10:02 (Ref:2268934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

1988 Silverstone TT.
The green one is also CHMS, as mentioned a couple of posts back. Patrick Watts and Harrison- anyone know a Christian name for him, as I don't have my race programme to hand

Malcolm Harrison I suspect, used to be a frontrunner in Metro's earlier in that decade. Was he anything to do with the TC Harrison dealer empire. Not sure.

KA · 14 Aug 2008, 12:24 (Ref:2269006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

I'm fairly sure it's Geoff's as he definitely had a white one which I remember Dad testing/racing at Snetterton after it had just been painted in a pearlescent white and I'm sure it had been white before but maybe not then.

The GK-S Corolla was definitely white in '88 (if you'll excuse more of my dodgy photography from a couple of pages back....
http://tentenths.com/forum/attachmen...6&d=1212788304 BTCC at Donington, a couple of weeks after the TT)

GBRM · 14 Aug 2008, 12:35 (Ref:2269009)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

The GK-S Corolla was definitely white in '88 (if you'll excuse more of my dodgy photography from a couple of pages back....
http://tentenths.com/forum/attachmen...6&d=1212788304 BTCC at Donington, a couple of weeks after the TT)

I would have thought the same car or Geoff K-S's one as the pic I posted on page 4 is white and is number 77 like your one from Donington and a lot of these racing drivers are superstitious about numbers and an event like the TT numbers would be a bit different (hence maybe why 48).

KA · 14 Aug 2008, 15:09 (Ref:2269082)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

I would have thought the same car or Geoff K-S's one as the pic I posted on page 4 is white and is number 77 like your one from Donington and a lot of these racing drivers are superstitious about numbers and an event like the TT numbers would be a bit different (hence maybe why 48).

I was certainly assuming the Kimber-Smith Corolla your dad is driving on the page 4 pics, and the one in my 1988 Donington pic are the same car with just a change in livery and sponsor between the 1987 and 88 seasons. The race number on the '88 TT car was 148- masked by my unerring ability to get the fence posts in the middle of the shot....

I've got no idea whether the Hodgetts/GK-S/Pearcy entry used Geoff K-S's car or a regular Hodgetts car at the TT though- it's a tempting idea though as the car is basically plain white in both pics. I don't have any other CHMS Corolla pics from that season to hand to know if Chris also had a plain white car at that time

GBRM · 14 Aug 2008, 15:17 (Ref:2269084)

Looking at your TT picture and really zooming/enlarging it there seems to be gold along the bottom of the sills - I wonder if this is the pearlescent white car I remember and that is a trick of the light?

andy_b · 15 Aug 2008, 07:04 (Ref:2269446)

how many cars did CHMS Have then?

Been looking for a 87 and a 88 entry list, but to no avail

**chunterer** · 15 Aug 2008, 09:42 (Ref:2269503)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

Looking at your TT picture and really zooming/enlarging it there seems to be gold along the bottom of the sills - I wonder if this is the pearlescent white car I remember and that is a trick of the light?

Well we know one of the CHMS cars (the 86 BTCC winner?) was that colour scheme and it would have made more sense to run that car that the team knew well (and give GKS a useful comparison with his car) than run Geoff's?

Another point is that I always thought the GK-S car appeared to have a higher ride height, or at least looked slightly jacked up at the rear compared to the CHMS cars which seemed almost dangerously low at the rear. Don't know if that's something that might help distinguish the differences?

KA · 15 Aug 2008, 10:13 (Ref:2269522)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

how many cars did CHMS Have then?

Been looking for a 87 and a 88 entry list, but to no avail

I've been wondering about that- at least two, but probably more- I'd guess three, maybe 4.

The original 1986 programme was two cars- the white car for Hodgetts and the red 'Demon Tweeks' car for Alan Minshaw.

The 1987 programme was much heavier, and if it was done with just 2 cars, then those little Corollas were worked VERY hard. On top of defending Hodgetts' BTCC title, they also did a large proportion of the WTCC and ETCC rounds with Andrew Bagnall. I've just had a skim through the results on Frank de Jong's Touring Car History website, and I reckon they took in at least a dozen races, on top of a full BTCC season, with 2 cars appearing at some of the BTCC rounds, Donington ETCC and the TT...

I'm pretty sure at least one new car was built along the way- I think the car used for the Australian/NZ and Japanese WTCC races may have been a new chassis for Bathurst- I'll look that up later in the '87 Bathurst annual.

I've got approximate entry lists for the BTCC covering the years CHMS ran Corollas, but they're at home and I can't access them right now- I'll post the relevant bits of them later

KA · 15 Aug 2008, 14:49 (Ref:2269649)

Just to follow up on this- to give an idea of how busy the 1987 was for the CHMS squad, these were their overseas adventures (OK, including Donington and Silverstone

) in the ETCC and WTCC:

March 22- Monza WTCC- Chris Hodgetts/Andrew Bagnall: 10th o/a, 1st class
April 5- Donington ETCC: 2 cars: Hodgetts/Bagnall: DNF, Alex Moss/Mark Jennings: 10th o/a, 2nd class
(interestingly, in the programme, there's a third CHMS Corolla entered for Mark Hales/Richard Belcher which presumably didn't show...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...987-04-05e.jpg )
May 10: Dijon WTCC: Moss/Jennings: 19th o/a, 2nd class
(this is definitely the 'red' car- http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/dijo...gra87%2092.jpg )
May 24: Anderstorp ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 8th o/a, 3rd class
June 7: Zolder ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: 9th o/a, 2nd class
June 14: Zeltweg ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 12th o/a, 1st class
June 28: Imola ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 18th o/a, 5th class
Aug 1/2: Spa 24 hours WTCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: DNF
(the 'white' car: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-092.jpg )
Sept 6: Silverstone TT WTCC: 2 cars: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 15th o/a, 1st class (the white car again: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-06-106.jpg and Gareth Chapman/Moss/Hodgetts: 16th o/a, 2nd class (presumably the red car)
October 4: Bathurst WTCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: DNF
(definitely a white car, but maybe a new one for the long-haul Australia/NZ/Japan leg of the WTCC)
October 26: Wellington WTCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: 16th o/a, 1st class
November 15: Fuji WTCC: Hodgetts/Jennings DNF

All of that on top of a BTCC title defence.....about the only thing missing was a trip to Macau...

davyboy · 15 Aug 2008, 18:52 (Ref:2269771)

At the time I always viewed CHMS as a pretty serious team with a decent infrastructure. What happened to them ? Chris seems to be operating on his own these days doing driver coaching and son Stefan seems to be struggling without a budget to get drives.

KA · 15 Aug 2008, 21:22 (Ref:2269850)

I took a look at the Bathust annual and 1987 BTCC results, and there may well have been 4 CHMS Corollas. The Bathurst car was a plain white Corolla with 'Gullivers Travel' logos. According to the rundown on the entry list in the book: 'The No.94 Corolla featured a brand new shell prepared by 1986 British champ Chris Hodgetts, and hadn't even been tested before coming to Bathurst'

According to the BTCC results I've got noted down CHMS ran 3 cars at a couple of the early-season BTCC rounds. Their BTCC entries were as follows:

R1 Silverstone

Chris Hodgetts- 8th o/a, 1st in class
Alan Minshaw- 10th o/a, 2nd in class
Paul Longfield- 12th o/a, 3rd in class

R2 Oulton

Hodgetts- 8th o/a, 1st in class
Chuck Nicholson- 9th o/a, 2nd in class
Alex Moss- 10th o/a, 3rd in class

R3 Thruxton

Hodgetts- 5th o/a, 1st class
Longfield- 10th o/a, 3rd class

R4 Thruxton

Hodgetts- 11th o/a, 2nd class

R5 Snetterton[*]Hodgetts- 7th o/a, 1st class[/LIST]
R6 Silverstone GP

Hodgetts- 12th o/a, 1st class
Will Hoy- 14th o/a, 3rd class

R7 Brands

Hodgetts- 7th o/a, 1st class
Moss- 10th o/a, 2nd class

R8 Snetterton

Hodgetts- 7th o/a, 1st class

R9 Donington

Hodgetts- 9th o/a, 1st class
Tony Dron- 13th o/a, 3rd class

R10 Oulton Park- 1 hour race

Tiff Needell/Hodgetts- 3rd o/a, 1st class
Hodgetts/Needell- 5th o/a, 2nd class

As we discussed a couple of pages back CHMS did the 1 hour/2 driver race with 2 cars and only 2 drivers- they qualified both cars, Chris started one, Tiff the other, then at the pitstop they pitted together and swapped cars....

R11 Donington

Hodgetts- 8th o/a, 1st class

R12 Silverstone

Mark Hales- 9th o/a 1st class (Hodgetts was away at Bathurst)

Jesper OH · 16 Aug 2008, 10:36 (Ref:2270035)

Chris Hodgetts ran three cars for the Donington 500 qualifying in early 1987, with the drivers gathering in two cars for the race.

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the Belgian Fina Corollas were run by RAS Sport. I know that RAS ran a couple of Fina sponsored Supra Turbos during the '88 Spa 24h, but there were never any RAS logos on the Fina Corollas, which I suspect were more identified by long time driving partners Serge de Liedekerke and Pierre Fermine. In fact three Belgian FINA Racing Corollas were entered and raced during the '88 Spa, with Stig Gruens Swedish car being the forth in Fina colours. The Gruen car also ran in these colours during the following Zolder round of the ETCC, and probably also at Nogaro a week after the Silverstone TT.

Jesper

terryobeirne · 17 Aug 2008, 10:31 (Ref:2270420)

In researching my Bob Holden AE86 Sprinters, I got this info that may be useful in this thread.......

from Tom Kimber Smith
I know that one of the cars that Geoff raced went to Macau in the late 80’s but im not sure what happened to it after that.

from Chris Hodgetts
my6 86 championship winning car was sold to Andrew Bagnall(Gullivers travel,Auckland NZ),and we raced this in Europe in 87 and also did Bathurst with it.(he stuffed it!)

andy_b · 17 Aug 2008, 20:13 (Ref:2270645)

thanks for that info terry

KA · 18 Aug 2008, 12:41 (Ref:2270922)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Chris Hodgetts ran three cars for the Donington 500 qualifying in early 1987, with the drivers gathering in two cars for the race.

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the Belgian Fina Corollas were run by RAS Sport. I know that RAS ran a couple of Fina sponsored Supra Turbos during the '88 Spa 24h, but there were never any RAS logos on the Fina Corollas, which I suspect were more identified by long time driving partners Serge de Liedekerke and Pierre Fermine. In fact three Belgian FINA Racing Corollas were entered and raced during the '88 Spa, with Stig Gruens Swedish car being the forth in Fina colours. The Gruen car also ran in these colours during the following Zolder round of the ETCC, and probably also at Nogaro a week after the Silverstone TT.

Jesper

Thanks for clearing that up Jesper- I hadn't noticed the Fina team had ever run 3 cars

One thing I noticed looking at Spa results and entry lists is that a lot of Corollas seemed to be entered under the name 'IMC Toyota'- (I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread) even those which were clearly from some of the well-known Corolla teams, such as the Danish Castrol car. The 1985 entry list is an example- all of the Corollas seem to be 'IMC' entries...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...985-07-28e.jpg
It's clearly not an individual team, so who were IMC? Was it just a case of Toyota's Belgian importer 'adopting' the Corolla entries for marketing reasons?

I've never seen photographic evidence to prove it, but as you suggest, I'd be very surprised if the Gruen Corolla ran in anything other than Fina colours at Nogaro in '88, bearing in mind it was still in them a week earlier at the TT

KA · 18 Aug 2008, 12:52 (Ref:2270927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

At the time I always viewed CHMS as a pretty serious team with a decent infrastructure. What happened to them ? Chris seems to be operating on his own these days doing driver coaching and son Stefan seems to be struggling without a budget to get drives.

The CHMS operation seemed to wind down after Hodgetts joined MIL Motorsport to drive the Supra in '88, although CHMS Corollas still appeared.

I don't think we ever established in the Supra thread how MIL was set up- was it an all-new team or a rebranding of an existing operation?. The presence of Vic Lee anongst the drivers suggests he may have been involved in setting the team up, but given that regular Hodgetts team-mate/co-driver Alex Moss was also involved, I wonder if any of the CHMS crew migrated to MIL with Chris (MIL also had a Corolla- wonder if it was an ex-CHMS car?) It always struck me as curious that after winning 2 championships with CHMS, Toyota apparently decided to support a new operation, and not CHMS to run the Supra, despite Chris staying on as a driver...

Alternatively, was the Brooklyn RS500 which appeared after Chris parted company with MIL run out of Brooklyn's own workshops, or did CHMS evolve into the Brooklyn team?. I'm curious to know the links- if any- between the various teams Chris drove for- Brooklyn (in Escort RS1600i guise), CHMS, MIL and the Brooklyn RS500 entry

andy_b · 18 Aug 2008, 15:24 (Ref:2271010)

Dont know, other than Brooklyn were involved before and during Chris's Corolla years. (Sponsorship on front bumper in some images + Chris drove a Brooklyn RS1600i)

btw- ka - did you get my pm?

KA · 18 Aug 2008, 15:37 (Ref:2271019)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

Dont know, other than Brooklyn were involved before and during Chris's Corolla years. (Sponsorship on front bumper in some images + Chris drove a Brooklyn RS1600i)

btw- ka - did you get my pm?

I'd forgotten about the 'Brooklyn Vehicle Contracts' sponsorship on the Corolla...

Yes, I'll have a look at that and get back to you- Great choice of pics, my mental image of Chris in a Corolla always seems to involve it having two wheels airborne over the kerbs....

Incidentally, for a closer detailed look at a Group A AE86, (though Charouz/Marlboro, rather than CHMS) the Lany Museum seem to have upgraded their website since I last looked at it, with a full page of pics for each car in the collection- lots of underbonnet and interior shots of their Marlboro Corolla
http://www.auto-muzeum.cz/en/toyota-corolla-gt-16v

davyboy · 18 Aug 2008, 18:55 (Ref:2271126)

Thanks for that KA. CHMS was certainly a sizeable team of people in the midlands building cars and it does seem rather odd that the outfit evaporated when Chris moved to MIL as they ran cars for plenty of other people. Maybe they were underwritten by Toyota to a such an extent that when the plug was pulled so went the team.

DAVID PATERSON · 26 Aug 2008, 08:02 (Ref:2275403)

Ten-tenths member William Dale Jr has sent me a complete list of results for Australian Touring Cars in 1990 & 1991, thanks William! It appears that my car nearly always ran #76 in that period. All i need now is some photos, please, anyone!

andy_b · 29 Aug 2008, 15:19 (Ref:2277506)

As promised, Speedhunters have now published the Fina sponsored Spa winner pics here, along with a write up (Antonio is a general AE86 nut, rather than a race fan)

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...-24h-ae86.aspx

CHMS post coming up soon

andy_b · 29 Aug 2008, 16:53 (Ref:2277561)

searching for images, I've just found this. Bob Holden sponsored car at Spa

http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20133.jpg

DAVID PATERSON · 1 Sep 2008, 08:22 (Ref:2279194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

searching for images, I've just found this. Bob Holden sponsored car at Spa

http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20133.jpg

Not only sponsored by Bob Holden, he also owned and drove that car. It is now owned by 10/10 member TerryO, who is currently restoring it for Historic racing.

Jesper OH · 5 Sep 2008, 18:07 (Ref:2282441)

http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...13&mode=search

..is a link to a picture of Finn Heikki Välimäki - the first I've ever found of his car, magazines included. Put in Gruen in the search field and a few pics of his car shows up as well, including a portrait of "The Stig" himself.

Jesper

KA · 8 Sep 2008, 09:36 (Ref:2284470)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...13&mode=search

..is a link to a picture of Finn Heikki Välimäki - the first I've ever found of his car, magazines included. Put in Gruen in the search field and a few pics of his car shows up as well, including a portrait of "The Stig" himself.

Jesper

That's a great find Jesper- I think I might spend a while looking through that site, just found a couple of other interesting pics....

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