|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
5 Jan 2018, 11:16 (Ref:3790790) | #1001 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,639
|
I don't mind giving new young drivers the benefit of the doubt, but to have a non junior /feeder team with with this driver pairing is frankly awful to see. Even Sauber has a more convincing driver pairing.
Stroll desperately needs an old hand alongside him IMO. He performed OK at times last season, but was struggling badly even at the end of the season in Brazil and other races. Shame they could not have picked up Sainz or even Wehrlein, or even poached Perez. |
||
__________________
It's just my opinion. |
5 Jan 2018, 12:24 (Ref:3790796) | #1002 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 224
|
Sad, but perhaps Rob Smedley can drive the car from the pits like he used to.
|
|
|
5 Jan 2018, 12:32 (Ref:3790799) | #1003 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
|||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
5 Jan 2018, 12:52 (Ref:3790806) | #1004 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,322
|
Why would Sainz or Perez (or anyone with options) even consider going to Williams at the moment? Pretty much everywhere else looks a better option.
|
||
|
5 Jan 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3790808) | #1005 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,060
|
See how Sirotkin goes before slaughtering him. I doubt the decision between him and Kubica was purely performance, the budget of course came into it.
Sirotkin needs to destroy Stroll though. Stroll was miles off Massa in terms of pace over the course of the season and with respect, Massa was hardly top drawer at this stage. Stroll's performance in Abu Dhabi was frankly embarrassing - when he should have made leaps during the year, it was as at least as bad as his first races. That performance was right up there with the likes of any of the joke pay drivers over the years. If Stroll does not up his game seriously in 2018, I hope they have the conviction to say to Stroll Sr., we're done. Otherwise, they are existing just to run Stroll and settle for mediocrity. I also don't think the Williams was as poor a car as claimed during 2017 - Stroll got some results out of it even when it was clear on the onboards he was overdriving and braking way too early when other cars were around him (like he was a bit scared) so he wasn't extracting every last tenth out of it. Massa was up and down and well past his best. |
|
__________________
All the same, isn't there a grand oul stretch in the evenings... |
5 Jan 2018, 14:17 (Ref:3790828) | #1006 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
|
The problem was Sirotkin was hot property a few seasons, then just seemed to be forgotten about. Now he's back again. I'll see how he goes before passing on any further comment however, as he could do well for them. Williams are not gone yet
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
5 Jan 2018, 17:29 (Ref:3790882) | #1007 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,955
|
Quote:
despite Maldonado's win in 2012, i would think, on paper anyways, Stroll and Sirotkin is a more promising pairing at the outset then was the Maldonado and Senna pairing heading into the 2012 season. rather its not the worst pay driver line up i have seen. hard to write off Williams just yet imo...i feel like regardless of their driving paring they are banking on the reliability and power of the Merc engine to keep them squarely in 5th place on the constructors table. given the 2018 engine allotment rules plus the money coming in from their pay drivers, this may be a reasonable risk to take. |
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
5 Jan 2018, 20:25 (Ref:3790919) | #1008 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,431
|
Senna maybe but Maldonado was massively quicker than Stroll or likely Sir Otkin
|
|
|
6 Jan 2018, 01:56 (Ref:3790948) | #1009 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
Quote:
The demise of Williams as a Formula 1 "racing" team. Who's fault is it? Williams, or FOM? https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/m...hange-williams |
|||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
6 Jan 2018, 05:02 (Ref:3790959) | #1010 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
The delay of an official announcement from Williams is a little concerning. The talk is that Williams are waiting for a Russian briefcase (or two) to arrive at Grove HQ. Or, 'finalising contract details' as so put by various media sources.
Why the concern? Sirotkin's Russian supplied briefcases have failed to show up on more than one occasion during his time in F1. And the ones that have shown up, are apparently only half full at times. Anyone remember the Russian rescue deal for Sauber in 2013? It was announced by Sauber mid 2013 that Russian backers will partner with Sauber, and as part of that deal, Sirotkin would get FP1 sessions in the second half of 2013, and a full-time drivers seat for 2014. The first lot of briefcases failed to show up, and so Sirotkin did not get any FP1 sessions with Sauber in 2013. He was still in the running for a full-time seat in 2014 however. Fast forward to February 2014, and no briefcase showed up in time at Hinwil, so lost his promised full-time seat, and was relegated to Sauber's test driver for 2014. But he had just enough funds for his one and only FP1 outing at the 2014 Russian GP. Towards the end of 2014, rumours had it that Sirotkin was in negotiations with Force India for a reserve/test driver role for 2015. In January of 2015 it was reported that Force India had an "agreement in principle" with Sirotkin, pending payment conditions were met prior to the first test at Jerez on February 1. Well.. the briefcase did not arrive in time, and Force India withdrew from the first test of 2015 as a result of lack of funds. They were depending on Sirotkin's briefcase to conduct the test. Talks regarding Sirotkin's role at Force India didn't progress any further, and Sirotkin was out of the picture at FI, and out of F1 for 2015. In April of 2016, just prior to the Russian GP, Renault F1 announced Sirotkin as their test driver with a "long-term development plan". The deal (although not officially confirmed), was rumoured to be for 6 FP1 outings during the 2016 season. Again, the Russian briefcases failed to arrive in time, and Sirotkin only got 2 FP1 outings (Russia and Brazil). He also drove during the in-season test at Silverstone. In 2017 Sirotkin remained with Renault and they announced that he had been promoted to "third and reserve driver with an enhanced role" with the team. Maybe some of the payment conditions were met and a briefcase finally arrived at Enstone (??). But Sirotkin only did 4 FP1 sessions last year (hard to call that an "enhanced" role). Renault and Sirotkin parted ways in September 2017. With a history of non-payments, or late payments, Sirotkin is a very risky choice for Williams, in more ways than one. Let's hope Williams have performed their due diligence, and don't end up in a worse financial situation than they're already in. The Russian briefcases supporting Sirotkin are reported to be "dirty" money with Putin's fingerprints all over it. That in itself, is another issue altogether. |
||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
6 Jan 2018, 17:23 (Ref:3791018) | #1011 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
just to put that into perspective (not disagree), the majority of drivers don’t pay their invoices on time pre-f1
|
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
7 Jan 2018, 01:49 (Ref:3791110) | #1012 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
And the majority of entrants taking pay driver money never deliver competitive equipment.
Here is a question, what is the highest position a pay driver has ever achieved as a pay driver in the WDC? |
|
|
7 Jan 2018, 09:09 (Ref:3791149) | #1013 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 193
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
7 Jan 2018, 09:51 (Ref:3791155) | #1014 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,179
|
|||
__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
7 Jan 2018, 11:04 (Ref:3791160) | #1015 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,404
|
|||
|
8 Jan 2018, 19:50 (Ref:3791434) | #1016 | |||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,907
|
Quote:
Going back further I'd be tempted to suggest Schumacher in '91. Merc and ONS paid Jordan and then Flav to get him in. |
|||
|
8 Jan 2018, 22:54 (Ref:3791458) | #1017 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
You can pretty much technically tag every driver currently on the grid, and in the past as a "pay driver". You need money behind you to make it into F1. No money to pay, no test time, no drive. Simples.
When a new to the grid "pay driver" performs well, and makes a good impression, the pay driver tag goes almost unnoticed. He (yes, as in a male) gets noticed for his talent and skills and the pay driver status is all but forgotten. Specially if he is signed on by a better team to race for them. The only exception to that currently is Hamilton, who was signed on to a top team on debut. |
||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
9 Jan 2018, 14:42 (Ref:3791550) | #1018 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
|
Niki Lauda had to use a bank loan to get into F1 quicker and look what happened
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
9 Jan 2018, 15:53 (Ref:3791559) | #1019 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,493
|
In true silly season style - souvenir tents are in for 2018.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...nascar-986764/ |
||
|
9 Jan 2018, 16:31 (Ref:3791569) | #1020 | |||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,907
|
Quote:
Mansell had no money to buy a drive, he was patroned by Chapman. Chapman or JPS footed his bills. Herbert had a similar thing with Peter Collins of Benetton (although he would have been signed on merit alone by another team without the 3000 smash) Johnny had very little backing at all. Certainly not enough to buy a ride. However to add to what I think you were saying, I reckon 2/3 of the Marlboro and Camel drivers wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance 25-30 years ago without getting sponsored in F3, 3000 and then into F1. The Stewart scheme was another good effort at helping talented drivers who would otherwise have struggled to progress. |
|||
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!" |
9 Jan 2018, 16:51 (Ref:3791575) | #1021 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,322
|
There aren't as many 'pay drivers' on the grid as you might think - if you look at who's on the grid then you get the following:
Red Bull graduates - Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz, Gasly, Hartley Mercedes graduates - Ocon Mclaren graduates - Hamilton, VanDoorne, Magnussen (could be argued Hamilton is a Mercedes graduate) Ferrari graduates - LeClerc That leaves: Raikkonen Bottas Perez Hulkenburg Alonso Grosjean Ericsson Stroll A.N.Other Williams driver Of those the drivers that bring big budgets are Ericsson, Stroll, Perez and A.N.Other. The others may bring budget but that's not what they're known for. |
||
|
10 Jan 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3791692) | #1022 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
Quote:
As I said in my post before, technically almost every driver on the grid currently is or was a "pay driver" at some stage in their F1 career. What is, or how do you define a pay driver? To most, a pay driver is someone who brings funds with them to the team they will be driving for. Whether those funds are from a personal, borrowed or a sponsor(s) or other, it is still money for the team because of that particular driver being in that particular team. For the 2017season, the grid consisted of the following "pay drivers" as defined by above. Bottas: Mercedes sponsored by Wihuri (a personal sponsor. Wihuri and Kemppi when at Williams) Raikkonen: Ferrari sponsored by Singha (brand ambassador and personal sponsor) Perez: Force India sponsored by Telmex, Telcel, Claro, Quaker State motor oils, INTERprotección (personal sponsors also) Grosjean: Haas F1 sponsored by Richard Mille (brand ambassador and a personal sponsor) Jolyon Palmer: Renault sponsored by Computacenter (a personal sponsor) Kvyat: STR sponsored by Acronis (a personal sponsor) Sainz Jr: STR (and Renault in 2018) sponsored by Estrella Galicia (a personal sponsor also) Stroll: Williams sponsored by Bombardier and also personal funds (Bombardier a personal sponsor also) Ericsson: Sauber sponsored by Modo Eyewear (a personal sponsor also. Ericsson also heavily linked with Sauber owners Longbow Finance) And almost all of the other 2017 drivers not on that list above, were pay drivers at some stage of their career. One recent example is Magnussen when at Renault - the team was sponsored by Jack & Jones. But J&J did not follow Magnussen to Haas. But is still a personal sponsor of K-Mag. |
|||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
10 Jan 2018, 11:16 (Ref:3791693) | #1023 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
I don't really have the time write an essay, and to go through all the details. So I'll just copy and past an article from someone who did have the time in July of last year on this very subject.
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
10 Jan 2018, 11:27 (Ref:3791700) | #1024 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
|
That's the thing, while they have been a few pay drivers in recent seasons they are at least competent enough for F1, not like the likes of Inoue, Lavaggi and Deletraz. So the quality is still there
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
10 Jan 2018, 11:29 (Ref:3791701) | #1025 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,493
|
Quote:
In the case of Kvyat - if it was his sponsor (Acronis) that was paying for him to be in the seat I would consider him a pay driver. But because he was dropped, and the sponsor still remains, I don't see how he can be considered a 'pay' driver in that context. For the other drivers, which came first - the personal sponsor funding their seat in a car, or the team sponsor extending to back a driver personally also? For instance - was Button a pay driver at McLaren because of the Santander connection - or did Santander extend their sponsorship to include the driver(s)? |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2018 VASC Silly Season (with POLL) | GTRMagic | Australasian Touring Cars. | 2074 | 19 Oct 2018 05:49 |
[WEC] BMW confirmed in GTE in 2018 | AkioAsakura95 | ACO Regulated Series | 264 | 13 Sep 2017 16:52 |
Hockenheim secures new deal until 2018 | jab | Formula One | 13 | 2 Oct 2009 00:25 |
The "silly" season just isn't "silly" any more | Tristan | Formula One | 36 | 31 Jul 2001 02:50 |