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10 Jan 2018, 11:39 (Ref:3791703) | #1026 | ||
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10 Jan 2018, 11:40 (Ref:3791704) | #1027 | |
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10 Jan 2018, 12:01 (Ref:3791707) | #1028 | ||
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Not strictly true. My understanding is Niki did borrow money from an Austrian bank of which his Grandfather was I believe a shareholder, using his life insurance as collateral. That got him through the March years, but a family argument over his motor racing ended any family involvement and his Grandfather had the loan withdrawn. Niki broke all contact with his Grandfather, and then took a separate loan (I believe from another bank) to cover his payments at BRM. He covered payments initially from start monies from Touring Cars and Sports cars, but owed money to BRM when Ferrari took Lauda on. With money from Ferrari Niki was able to clear the second loan.
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10 Jan 2018, 12:36 (Ref:3791713) | #1029 | |
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I think there is a difference between a driver who can bring sponsorship because they're either a rising star or talented and/or they're marketable for a company and a "pay" driver like stroll or Perez, who bring money because of family or government-backed businesses wanting a driver from their country on the grid or something like that.
If you look at it in other sports, if a lesser funded team brought in players who were not as good because they took a lot less money because they were rich, that would be a "pay" player. But a baseball player like mike trout, or football player like tom Brady or nba player like lebron james all have sponsors, but it's because they're real good and marketable. LeBron james wasn't drafted first solely because he was marketable, but because he was great. But he was sponsored before being drafted (I think). The distinction comes somewhere along the lines of: did you get the opportunity because of money or talent? Would Perez have gotten a shot without money? I don't know, but kinda doubt it. Stroll definitely wouldn't have. Kvyat? Others that have sponsors likely still would have though, based on talent. |
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10 Jan 2018, 13:08 (Ref:3791720) | #1030 | |||
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See below:
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10 Jan 2018, 13:22 (Ref:3791724) | #1031 | ||
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Well at least to me. But my opinion is worth about as much as well air, and at times can stink just as much. |
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10 Jan 2018, 13:41 (Ref:3791729) | #1032 | ||
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Surely it's easy to differentiate between the two classes of pilots.
One is the driver who is paid a sum to sit in a race car (no matter where that money comes from), whilst the other has to pay the team to allow his bum in the seat. |
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10 Jan 2018, 16:22 (Ref:3791750) | #1033 | |||
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Mike Harte: Your definition above my post. How true. Simple.. Last edited by djinvicta; 10 Jan 2018 at 16:23. Reason: Added |
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10 Jan 2018, 21:42 (Ref:3791845) | #1034 | ||
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A pay driver isn't really just someone who just contributes some of the green for their drive. It's more referred to as a driver where the amount he pays outweights his results. In other words if he wasn't paying, he wouldn't be on the grid. In that respect you can't say Schumacher and Alonso are former pay drivers. They were always going to F1.
Of the current grid, most of the drivers there have their drive on merit. Only Ericsson is the obvious choice of pay driver, he's never had any significant results in his career and there's no way he'd be on the grid without money. Even Lance Stroll you could say he did win the F3 title, the same title Verstappen won. Without the deep pockets he probably would have moved across to F2 and would still be competing there, but certainly may still have made it to F1. If he got the results in F2 then he may have moved to Williams this year anyway. He can't have done worse than the now confirmed Sirotkin. Perez could be a driver that wouldn't have his seat in F1 without the money. His results at McLaren may have seen the end of his career. But he deserves his seat still as his results over the last few years have been good enough. But yeah the way I see it only Ericsson, Stroll and Sirotkin are the only true pay drivers this year. Although I do think Sirotkin is one of the stronger F2 drivers in the last couple of years. His creds took a dip 2016 after he replaced Vandoorne and failed to live up to expectations and what Stoff did in that car. But he did better than Albon and Matsushita a year later. |
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10 Jan 2018, 23:00 (Ref:3791862) | #1035 | |
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I wouldn’t be 100% sure about even TGF. If Tic-Tac hadn’t stumped up the big money who knows what would have happened.
There are so many more drivers only on even the current and very recent grid because of the funding they bring, you might be very surprised. But they don’t generally get so noticed because they are seen as commercial, unlike the mega-Can dollars. Anyway, what is this F3 title Verstappen won? Can’t remember that! |
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11 Jan 2018, 00:10 (Ref:3791868) | #1036 | ||
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The "now confirmed" Sirotkin? Have I missed something?
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Part time wingman, full time spud. |
11 Jan 2018, 00:17 (Ref:3791869) | #1037 | |
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devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
11 Jan 2018, 02:18 (Ref:3791886) | #1038 | ||
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11 Jan 2018, 05:12 (Ref:3791900) | #1039 | ||||
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Guessing the answers to your homework is not the best way to succeed. |
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When did I do dangerous driving??? |
11 Jan 2018, 18:01 (Ref:3792076) | #1040 | ||
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12 Jan 2018, 08:20 (Ref:3792220) | #1041 | ||
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Oh haha totally forgot Verstappen never even won that title. Funny how your memory makes up a completely different story to what actually happened, because it would be just so bizarre and unbelievable that the guy that came 3rd in F3 in only his 2nd year of car racing, gets bought up to F1.
Re Sirotkin, heck I thought it was confirmed but looks like gpfans.com has done it again with false news. See https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4...looked-kubica/ And previous day a sirotkin confirmed post. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the case though, just wait a couple more days I bet sirotkin will be in. We just haven't had the official announcement yet so the big news broadcasters are holding off. |
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12 Jan 2018, 09:15 (Ref:3792229) | #1042 | ||
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12 Jan 2018, 10:57 (Ref:3792247) | #1043 | ||
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Yeah he certainly did. 99/100 drivers probably wouldn't have, but Verstappen is a special talent.
It's funny to look back over those junior categories because in 10 years time when the Hamiltons, Vettels, Alonsos are retired we could easily see Ocon and Verstappen the creme de la creme of F1 with titles among them. Probably still with Merc and RB. |
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12 Jan 2018, 18:25 (Ref:3792330) | #1044 | ||
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12 Jan 2018, 19:09 (Ref:3792337) | #1045 | |
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...for-f1-995197/
No American ready for F1? Perhaps but the article is looking at just Indycar. Look at sportscars too. I think Ricky Taylor should be getting some F1 buzz. |
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12 Jan 2018, 23:34 (Ref:3792388) | #1046 | ||
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ahh #whocares
Last edited by Razzzor; 12 Jan 2018 at 23:49. |
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12 Jan 2018, 23:39 (Ref:3792389) | #1047 | |||
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13 Jan 2018, 11:40 (Ref:3792441) | #1048 | |
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But now that Josef has won the title in Indycars, there's no reason why he can't give F1 a try. I think they underestimate him, he would be good enough for F1 anyday
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
13 Jan 2018, 13:06 (Ref:3792453) | #1049 | ||
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14 Jan 2018, 06:00 (Ref:3792614) | #1050 | |
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With one leading driver from one team having any realistic chance of winning a Grand Prix, 2 other teams having a small outside chance of winning a race when something goes wrong, and the rest of the grid made up of the rich and privileged who have bought their seats, F1 is beginning to look like sheltered employment.
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