Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[KA]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

There was a bit of a disagreement between Gregor and Ken about Gerry Marshall racing / owning 005.

I've found an Autosport ad (there's a surprise for me!) that sheds a bit of light - the week after the CSCC pre-83 pilot race in October '93, Gerry is selling both the Pearcey Metro, and the Rover that he raced - 018 (claims to be Hulme / Allam TT winner, and last but one built). Just rebuilt by Roger Dowson.

I hope that's some use.

The two cars- and a 6R4- had previously been advertised in Nov '91. They're described as having been part of 'a private motorsport collection'. The contact details are missing from the version I've got, so I don't know whether it was Colin Pearcy or Gerry advertising them in '91

[KA]

Originally Posted by E36ST

Chassis No 19 for sale here, listed 8 August:

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...uring_Car.html

Some 17" TWR Rover Speedlines as well if you needed any spares...
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...er_Wheels.html

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by KA

The two cars- and a 6R4- had previously been advertised in Nov '91. They're described as having been part of 'a private motorsport collection'. The contact details are missing from the version I've got, so I don't know whether it was Colin Pearcy or Gerry advertising them in '91

In '91 it was a Hemel Hempstead code, but this is also the code for Tring (my Nan lives there, but I doubt she'll be much help in identifying Rovers!), which suggests Gerry. The '93 advert has a different number, Aylesbury code, but it's "Gerry Marshall offers for sale...." and mention of selling to raise funds for a new project.

Pearcey drove the Metro in the '93 race, but of course this doesn't prove anything. Maybe Gregor knows where the cars came from? And didn't 018 end up with Arthur Carter straight from Gerry?

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by Alex E

Not sure if this is of interest, but I have a German mag from August `84 with a BL advert showing the Tony Pond / Daily Mirror rally Gp A SD1. It was just prior to the Hunsruck rally. I can try to post the picture if it helps.
Alex.

Interesting to note that the chassis list don't mention any of the German group A Nickel Rovers (1983-1986) or the TWR British group 1 cars of 1981-1982 ..or the French champion winning 1982 car of René Metge!

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by DPUZEY

The Rover SD1 Club has also been looking into the history of the race cars and recently published the following article spread over 2 issues of the club magazine. Thought it ought to be reproduced here. The article is based on the same information Ken Clarke has, and he approved the article before it was published.

The club is now in a position to publish a list of cars built and what events they were used on. The club is aware of which cars still exist and where they are.

In total 18 cars or chassis were built over a 4 year period. Some of them had very varied lives. Apart from the engine difference, single or twin plenum and numerous suspension developments the most visible difference is in roll cage design. Early cars from 1983 and 84 had straight forward steel rollcages installed by Gartrac, the 1985 and 86 cars had more complicated alloy cages from Matter. All bodies started life on the production line at Cowley, although the later ones were built without any of the sound deadening and sealant added!

Don't forget at this time the SD1 was still in production so the supply of parts particularly body panels was very easy and quick meaning that even quite substantial damage could be rapidly repaired. These were competition cars not road cars! One major event that had an effect on some cars was the Shawcross investigation and the protest following the 1983 Trimoco saloon car championship, Austin/Rover withdrew from the 1984 championship part way through the season.

The Cars – 1983

Chassis 1 - The first car was used in the French Production Championship by Rene Metge and Jean Louis Schlesser in 1983and 84. The shell then became a show car and ended up in the Heritage Collection at Gaydon.

Dave Puzey
Chairman & Treasurer
Rover SD1 Club

series

|

round

|

track

|

date

|

pos.

|

#

|

driver(s)

|

sponsor

|

notes

NOSCAR

|

1

|

Monthléry

|

1983-03-27

|

NC

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

Disqualified for breaching the starting procedure?

NOSCAR

|

2

|

Nogaro

|

1983-04-04

|

?

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

Result unknown, not know if Metge raced, but likely did.

NOSCAR

|

3

|

Paul Ricard (GP)

|

1983-04-17

|

5.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

4

|

Magny-Cours

|

1983-05-01

|

8.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

5

|

Dijon

|

1983-05-08

|

6.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

6

|

Pau (F2)

|

1983-05-22

|

7.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

7

|

La Chatre

|

1983-06-05

|

2.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

8

|

Rouen

|

1983-06-12

|

1.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

9

|

Charade

|

1983-06-26

|

13.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

10

|

Croix-en-Ternois

|

1983-07-03

|

1.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

11

|

Hockenheim (GP)

|

1983.08.06-07?

|

3.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

Date of the actual racing unknown.

NOSCAR

|

12

|

Nogaro

|

1983-09-04

|

3.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

13

|

Albi

|

1983-09-18

|

3.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

14

|

Lédenon

|

1983-09-25

|

9.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

NOSCAR

|

15

|

Monthléry

|

1983-10-09

|

6.

|

1

|

René Metge

|

Marlboro

|

How to avoit the |? Remembered to forget a goot deal about posting images. I'm Searching for 1984 results, but my link to the site don't work for now. Interesting to note that René Metge was replaced by Jean-Louis Schlesser for 1984, but how and why?!

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Interesting to note that the chassis list don't mention any of the German group A Nickel Rovers (1983-1986) or the TWR British group 1 cars of 1981-1982 ..or the French champion winning 1982 car of René Metge!

Jesper

That's because the list related to works Group A TWR built and entered cars only.

Perhaps Dave Puzey has some inside info about the other cars you mention as well?

Over to you Dave!

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

In '91 it was a Hemel Hempstead code, but this is also the code for Tring (my Nan lives there, but I doubt she'll be much help in identifying Rovers!), which suggests Gerry. The '93 advert has a different number, Aylesbury code, but it's "Gerry Marshall offers for sale...." and mention of selling to raise funds for a new project.

Pearcey drove the Metro in the '93 race, but of course this doesn't prove anything. Maybe Gregor knows where the cars came from? And didn't 018 end up with Arthur Carter straight from Gerry?

Where Dad and Colin lived was the Herts/Beds/Bucks border so they had a great mix of postcode/county/STD codes - probably an HP postcode and an 01296 number so probably was 018 Dad raced and yes, it was re-built by Roger Dowson, he looked after Colin's more modern cars after his link with GMR.
The private collection was Colin's (it was brilliant!!) and the 6r4 was also his car.
One thing to add, there is also a possibility Arthur had two cars but Terry Bower would be the man to ask on that.

[The Grey Ghost]

double post

[The Grey Ghost]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Excellent pictures, there! What would a Moore Magazine paint job be like in terms of graphic and colours?

Jesper

Found it .....



And another one of the 61 car



The transporter in the background of the More car was used for the Rovers and for the Jags later that year (85) with there three car assault of Bathurst

A "privateer" that ran during the TWR years was Tim Slako from western Australia

Be interesting to find out how much factory support he received

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by The Grey Ghost

Found it .....



And another one of the 61 car



The transporter in the background of the More car was used for the Rovers and for the Jags later that year (85) with there three car assault of Bathurst

A "privateer" that ran during the TWR years was Tim Slako from western Australia

Be interesting to find out how much factory support he received

The colour scheme of the Tim Slako car looks familiar. Could that be the ex Charles Sawyer Hoare (SP?) car that was built by Andy Rouse Engineering?

[KA]

Yes, it's the ex-Sawyer-Hoare car. According to the 85/86 Bathurst annuals, Slako bought it in 1985 and did a few 1985 ATCC races as a pre-Bathurst shakedown, still in the ex-CS-H colours.
(as a comparison, CS-H in '84:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36111778@N08/3331801612/ )

It turned plain white with 'Alf Barbagallo Rover' & '96FM' sponsorship for Bathurst before getting the infamous bright pink paintjob (probably the best-known livery on the car in Australia) for 1986.

IIRC there was a post somewhere back in the thread saying that it was being restored in Australia, and a couple of pics of freshly-painted pink bare shell. Anyone know the current state of play?

Think we've discussed them a bit before, but there were a couple of other Rovers seen at Bathurst:
John Donnelly's red 'Visionhire' car from 1986, which was a locally-prepared car, and the UK-entered 'Flexible Hose Supplies' car of Barry Robinson in '85- this was another Rouse car, I think the ex-Pete Hall ICS prodsaloon, and apparently ran in pretty much production spec

Great to have some more pics of the 'Mobil' and 'More' cars!

[chunterer]

Indeed, and this car was already pretty well used before it went to Australia.

It started life as one of the Martin Thomas built/prepared Patrick Motorsport Rover 3500 Group 1 cars from 1981 raced by Brian Muir and then Rad Dougall. (Possible it was the first car built in 1980, unless that one is the display car seen in the museum a few pages back?). Depends if MTR built 2 or 3 cars....

When Sawyer-Hoare bought it at the end of 1982 to replace his Capri, it was then changed to Group A spec for 1983.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Indeed, and this car was already pretty well used before it went to Australia.

It started life as one of the Martin Thomas built/prepared Patrick Motorsport Rover 3500 Group 1 cars from 1981 raced by Brian Muir and then Rad Dougall. (Possible it was the first car built in 1980, unless that one is the display car seen in the museum a few pages back?). Depends if MTR built 2 or 3 cars....

When Sawyer-Hoare bought it at the end of 1982 to replace his Capri, it was then changed to Group A spec for 1983.

Was the 1982 TT group A Patrick 3500 V8 a new build? That's my impression, but over time I can't remember or the question hasn't come up yet!

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Was the 1982 TT group A Patrick 3500 V8 a new build? That's my impression, but over time I can't remember or the question hasn't come up yet!

Jesper

Pretty sure it was one of the existing Tricentrol cars 'modded' for the race. Your thinking that this is the most likely car to have been sold to Sawyer-Hoare is logical though......

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Pretty sure it was one of the existing Tricentrol cars 'modded' for the race. Your thinking that this is the most likely car to have been sold to Sawyer-Hoare is logical though......

Patrick Motorsport ran two Rovers for a couple of summer BSCC events - the last being at Brands Hatch on 18th July - so would have had almost two months to convert one of the group 1 cars to group A.

But why did Patrick Motorsport do this? In the 9th September Autosport it is announced that the team will terminate their British saloon car participation at the end of the year to take a break for a year, to see what group A will bring. Martin Thomas, on the other hand, is already working on new projects for '83, although the article doesn't mention what series it would be. The same Autosport issue has a preview of the upcoming TT race with not a single word of the Patrick car, despite mentioning it in the entry list - a late entry by Patrick Motorsport, after the article was written?

This last bit would, from a logic point, point to a conversion from an existing car rather than a new build.

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Patrick Motorsport ran two Rovers for a couple of summer BSCC events - the last being at Brands Hatch on 18th July - so would have had almost two months to convert one of the group 1 cars to group A.

But why did Patrick Motorsport do this? In the 9th September Autosport it is announced that the team will terminate their British saloon car participation at the end of the year to take a break for a year, to see what group A will bring. Martin Thomas, on the other hand, is already working on new projects for '83, although the article doesn't mention what series it would be. The same Autosport issue has a preview of the upcoming TT race with not a single word of the Patrick car, despite mentioning it in the entry list - a late entry by Patrick Motorsport, after the article was written?

This last bit would, from a logic point, point to a conversion from an existing car rather than a new build.

Jesper

Yes good questions raised Jesper!

Although Patrick left the series, Thomas didn't take a year out as he prepared another Rover; Gordon Spice's car for 1983. It is thought that this was a brand new car (without checking, Martin might have already told us of this back in the thread), but considering that Spice's initial aim was to compete in Group C, when this didn't come off he reverted to BTCC pretty late in the day and only ran about half the season IIRC. As the cost of a new car would've been fairly big for such a short campaign, I wonder if this was in fact one of the earlier Group 1 cars uprated, as CS-H's also was?

So now I guess, the possibility exists that if there was 2 PMS Group 1 cars, all 3 could have re-appeared in Group A, but still we don't know which one ran at the 82 TT!!!

Martin can you come back on and tell us more about your Rovers please?

[grouparover]

Hi There,

I believe i own the Ex Patrick motorsport Muir car, it was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare, then to Tim Slacko in Perth Australia.
I called Martin Thomas a few years back and asked if could remember anything about the car, he told me the Muir car was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare.
All the hall markings are the same as the Muir car, the recess in the front passanger guard for the kill switch / fire extinguisher as well as the different style of Compomotive wheels that are fitted front and rear of the car.The tank bladder is dated March 1980 which i assume it makes it one of the older SD1's.The rear axle is still the group 1 item with the front suspension a combination of group 1 and group A.
I tried to locate a VIN number for the shell when i stripped it back, it was
blank everywhere, except for the alloy plate fitted by Andy Rouse
( ARE 004 GAR)
Progress has started on the reassembly of the car and should be finished sooner rather than later.

Paul Davis

[KA]

Originally Posted by grouparover

Hi There,

I believe i own the Ex Patrick motorsport Muir car, it was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare, then to Tim Slacko in Perth Australia.
I called Martin Thomas a few years back and asked if could remember anything about the car, he told me the Muir car was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare.
All the hall markings are the same as the Muir car, the recess in the front passanger guard for the kill switch / fire extinguisher as well as the different style of Compomotive wheels that are fitted front and rear of the car.The tank bladder is dated March 1980 which i assume it makes it one of the older SD1's.The rear axle is still the group 1 item with the front suspension a combination of group 1 and group A.
I tried to locate a VIN number for the shell when i stripped it back, it was
blank everywhere, except for the alloy plate fitted by Andy Rouse
( ARE 004 GAR)
Progress has started on the reassembly of the car and should be finished sooner rather than later.

Paul Davis

Thanks Paul- that fills a gap, the early cars are the ones I know least about. I'll keep a watch for pics of the finished article when it's all back together!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes good questions raised Jesper!

Although Patrick left the series, Thomas didn't take a year out as he prepared another Rover; Gordon Spice's car for 1983. It is thought that this was a brand new car (without checking, Martin might have already told us of this back in the thread), but considering that Spice's initial aim was to compete in Group C, when this didn't come off he reverted to BTCC pretty late in the day and only ran about half the season IIRC. As the cost of a new car would've been fairly big for such a short campaign, I wonder if this was in fact one of the earlier Group 1 cars uprated, as CS-H's also was?

So now I guess, the possibility exists that if there was 2 PMS Group 1 cars, all 3 could have re-appeared in Group A, but still we don't know which one ran at the 82 TT!!!

Martin can you come back on and tell us more about your Rovers please?

by way of comparison...

The green Thomas/Gordon Spice car at the 1983 TT:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-11-024.jpg

The Sawyer-Hoare car at the same event-
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-11-025.jpg

The Muir/Percy Patrick Motorsport car at the '82 TT
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-12-005.jpg

Patrick Motorsport car on display at Autosport International a couple of years ago:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveoflogic/3385164350/

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by grouparover

Hi There,

I believe i own the Ex Patrick motorsport Muir car, it was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare, then to Tim Slacko in Perth Australia.
I called Martin Thomas a few years back and asked if could remember anything about the car, he told me the Muir car was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare.
All the hall markings are the same as the Muir car, the recess in the front passanger guard for the kill switch / fire extinguisher as well as the different style of Compomotive wheels that are fitted front and rear of the car.The tank bladder is dated March 1980 which i assume it makes it one of the older SD1's.The rear axle is still the group 1 item with the front suspension a combination of group 1 and group A.
I tried to locate a VIN number for the shell when i stripped it back, it was
blank everywhere, except for the alloy plate fitted by Andy Rouse
( ARE 004 GAR)
Progress has started on the reassembly of the car and should be finished sooner rather than later.

Paul Davis

Is this the pink one that had a close encounter with the Bathurst wall with Tim Slako at the wheel ?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by grouparover

Hi There,

I believe i own the Ex Patrick motorsport Muir car, it was sold to Charles Sawyer Hoare, then to Tim Slacko in Perth Australia.

The tank bladder is dated March 1980 which i assume it makes it one of the older SD1's.The rear axle is still the group 1 item with the front suspension a combination of group 1 and group A.
I tried to locate a VIN number for the shell when i stripped it back, it was
blank everywhere, except for the alloy plate fitted by Andy Rouse
( ARE 004 GAR)
Progress has started on the reassembly of the car and should be finished sooner rather than later.

Paul Davis

Great, thanks Paul.

The 1980 tank bladder date suggests that this could be the original Patrick car I referred to earlier that Yogi Muir debuted midway through that season. Although that date could simply refer to the actual manufacturing date of the car at the factory?

However that particular car was involved in a major shunt with 2 lower class cars in the Brands Hatch BGP supporter, but I don't know how badly it was damaged or whether it was written off as he missed races after that?

Wonder what tha 'G' stands for in 'GAR' by the way?

[grouparover]

The fuel Bladder is a Premier unit with BL cars as the customer name on it.
The id plate with GAR i think relates to Gartrac who did the roll cages for the cars.
There is also certainly evidence of damage to the front of the car , both front guards have been replaced at some point.
Please find the attached images of the car through its life here in Australia

[KA]

Originally Posted by grouparover

The fuel Bladder is a Premier unit with BL cars as the customer name on it.
The id plate with GAR i think relates to Gartrac who did the roll cages for the cars.
There is also certainly evidence of damage to the front of the car , both front guards have been replaced at some point.
Please find the attached images of the car through its life here in Australia

Thanks- good to see all three colourschemes the car had in Australia.

As you say, it took at least one pretty big hit in Australia- the 1986 shunt at Bathurst that Davyboy mentioned (IIRC Slako's co-driver Geoff Leeds put it in the wall during a qualifying session I think? the car was straightened out in the TAFE workshop in the paddock and made the race)

[KA]

While we're talking about Rovers in Australia, do we know any more about the other Australian car, John Donnelly's red car in '86?

According to the '86 Bathurst annual, Donnelly was a Brisbane-based bricklaying contractor, who was returning to racing after a break (he'd previously run a Group C Falcon) and went the Rover route because it would stand out from the crowd of Commodores and he thought it was potentially cheaper.
The book says the Rover was built by Donnelly and his crew, with some parts sourced in the UK (and a little information 'squeezed out of TWR'), but using a lot of standard parts, or locally modified/fabricated stuff (for example,the brakes came from his previous Falcon). Engines and engineering support came from RX Automotive in Brisbane (which was owned by Donnelly's codriver Simon Harrex)

A few pics in the book show an overall red car with white wheels and sponsorship from 'Visionhire'

Anyone got any more?

[grouparover]

You are correct the car crashed in practise at Bathurst 1986, the drivers front and rear of the car was damaged at the top of the mountain while Jeff leeds was driving.
when the car was stripped down for restoration there was still quite a lot of work to do to make the car straight again.

The Donnelly car was sold to Tom Hutchinson in South Australia over 10 years ago, the running gear was stripped out of the rover for his TR8 marque sports car, much of the rovers running gear has been replaced with newer equipment over the years, the TR8 still runs the wheels that were fitted the Donnelly car. I purchased the rear axle from Tom a couple of years ago.
The Donnelly shell is now in Sydney.