The scanner mega-thread

[Guinness2702]

The Maycom AR-108 seems to be by far the most popular amongst marshals IME. Fine for nearly everything but it doesn't do the 4xx frequencies that are occasionally used. It's normally 60-70 quid, but Maplin have been known to have it for about 40, from time to time.

I think you'll struggle to find anything around 40 quid, unless you're patient enough to keep searching and wait 'til it goes on offer somewhere. Note I don't believe the AR-108 usually comes with an earpiece, but you can get some reasonable ones for not much more than £5.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Drummer

I'd just like to feel a little more involved, by hearing everything that's going on, it might help me learn stuff too! (and let's face it, you look more like a marshal with an ear piece in!) XD

Can I suggest that for your first year or so you don't use a scanner? You'll be faced with enough new & challenging situations which will require your full attention - a scanner can be an unnecessary distraction.

. . . and I've got to ask, what's this "XD" that keeps appearing in your posts?

[HairyDJ]

Dave - RTFM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons

Glen - you really will fall out with PC / IO if you plan to use a scanner in your early days - if you feel you need to know more about what's going on, then keep asking the folk around you, those with ears plugged in ought to be sharing what is relevant. One oft made scanner point at briefings is "if you hear something on the scanner and then start looking anywhere other than at oncoming traffic - I'll rip it out your #$#$ ear!").

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

Dave - RTFM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons

I didn't think anybody used emoticons any more. . . so 1990s! (Sorry, Drummer!)

[Drummer]

XD is supposed to be a kind of Muttley laugh type thing. Yeah, I'm an 80's child, I learned all my PC skillz in the 90's. No offence taken, lol!

I guess for work on the bank, scanners could be a bad idea, but they seem to be darn useful in the pits, at times. They don't issue many people with radios in the pit lane, apparently. If I'm half way up the pit lane, out of ear shot, it'd be nice to know there was a car coming into the pit lane in flames, but maybe I'm over analysing again. LOL!

N.B. "lol" means "laugh out loud" Again, very 90's! <-- That's a wink.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Drummer

I guess for work on the bank, scanners could be a bad idea, but they seem to be darn useful in the pits, at times.

Scanners are useful trackside as well, but probably best avoided for a year or so.

[beltanedeath]

i think taking a blanket view that "you are new, you couldn't possible be intelligent enough to marshal and listen to the track communications" is a bit naive. I'm 40, had a radio strapped to my ear since i was 18 I can manage to talk to the public and still listen to what is being transmitted. Sometimes the more experienced car marshals come across a wee bit condescending.

Sorry Dave, but I'm going to disagree with you, as a new marshal, with a scanner. I think scanners are a very useful tool and would recommend them to old and new marshals alike. It doesn't mean that your going to act on the transmissions (clearly you follow the I/O's lead), but it does help to make you more aware.

Sean

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by beltanedeath

i think taking a blanket view that "you are new, you couldn't possible be intelligent enough to marshal and listen to the track communications" is a bit naive. I'm 40, had a radio strapped to my ear since i was 18 I can manage to talk to the public and still listen to what is being transmitted. Sometimes the more experienced car marshals come across a wee bit condescending.

Sorry Dave, but I'm going to disagree with you, as a new marshal, with a scanner. I think scanners are a very useful tool and would recommend them to old and new marshals alike. It doesn't mean that your going to act on the transmissions (clearly you follow the I/O's lead), but it does help to make you more aware.

Sean

I was tempted to say something along similar lines. It *is* important to have a feel for how it plays when you don't have a scanner, and to learn to not rely on it, so you can cope when the scanner doesn't work for some reason, but to say they should not be used at all by newer marshals is a bit luddite, and IMHO I agree a bit condescending.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by beltanedeath

i think taking a blanket view that "you are new, you couldn't possible be intelligent enough to marshal and listen to the track communications" is a bit naive. I'm 40, had a radio strapped to my ear since i was 18 I can manage to talk to the public and still listen to what is being transmitted. Sometimes the more experienced car marshals come across a wee bit condescending.

How does "can I suggest. . .", "probably best avoided" come across as "taking a blanket view that 'you are new, you couldn't possible be intelligent enough to marshal and listen to the track communications'"? Did I in any of my posts cast any doubt on anyone's ability?

Sorry Dave, but I'm going to disagree with you, as a new marshal, with a scanner. I think scanners are a very useful tool and would recommend them to old and new marshals alike. It doesn't mean that your going to act on the transmissions (clearly you follow the I/O's lead), but it does help to make you more aware.

You are entitled to your opinion. I'm merely offering the advice that new marshals should think twice & not rush into buying a scanner, advice I was given, & took, when I first started. Indeed, the view than was that if you needed to be able to listen to radio traffic you'd be given a radio . . . maybe that still holds true?

[Pete Howarth]

I don't object to scanners on post and at times they are very useful, especially when numbers are low. I agree with Mr Brand, a new marshal in their first year or two, without a scanner can learn the observations of whats going on without knowing whats going on. This is nothing to do with the ability of the marshal, it's just part of the knowledge gained with experience.
Yes, I use a scanner if I'm on post without a radio. I think it was was my fourth year I bought a scanner.

[Richard Duvall]

I partly agree with those saying that new marshals should not use scanners for two reasons:

1. No point investing in one until you know that you will be marshalling regularly.
2. At the first few events you should concentrate upon what is expected from you are rely on experienced marshals the guide you. For this reason, if I am with a novice, I make an effort of explaining what is going on.

However, I think it is going a bit far to say wait for a couple of years! Once you've learned the basics you can do the job so much better if you are better informed.

[Woolley]

As a new marshal there's a lot to learn. The biggest thing is awareness, particularly of danger but also of the team, of what's expected and generally what's going on. I can't recommend allocating 50% of your attention to what's coming in one ear, most of which isn't applicable to the post you're on.

I guess there's a reason when you're learning to drive why they don't teach you how to tune the radio or change a CD...

[beltanedeath]

ok a simple "why scanners are useful to everyone." tale.

post 17 cadwell top of the mountain, me, i/o and flag man. End of race down the mountain to to flag cars up the slip road. Who goes down every race to flag them up the slip road? me, who want to know what the last car is on the track me? who wants to know who crossed the line first? me. Now I could keep taking my eyes off the track to see what post 16 is doing to get an indication of what might or not be happening, or i could keep looking back up the hill to the i/o and shouting "what??". But what about hearing "race winner 23" and "last car on track 19" in my ear? Bingo! all my concentration is on the cars, where it should be, because of the guy who's coming round still at race speed and nearly didn't make turn up slip has ended up parked where i was standing 3 seconds ago.

I'm on my 6th car meet now, there should be an "assumed competence" (after all we have done the training) of new marshals, which most marshals I have worked with adopt, but a few perhaps aren't so prepared to accept that. I even heard one marshal say to his mate "oh god another newbie". I took this a one off and to be honest made me smirk. But like some marshals I've come into this game with out knowing anyone else who does it, I've come by myself, no partner in tow or mate to drag along, and if i was the shy retiring type, that type of comment could have stopped me coming again.

Sean

[beltanedeath]

on an aside, experience is a different thing, experience is the "better way, quicker way, safer way" of doing something


like using the edit function correctly!

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by beltanedeath

ok a simple "why scanners are useful to everyone." tale.

post 17 cadwell top of the mountain.....But what about hearing "race winner 23" and "last car on track 19" in my ear? Bingo! all my concentration is on the cars, where it should be, because of the guy who's coming round still at race speed and nearly didn't make turn up slip has ended up parked where i was standing 3 seconds ago.

Mountain top is actually post 16. But more importantly *gasp* *shock* are you acting on what you heard over a scanner? That'll never do*!!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, IMHO, all marshals should have access to a listen only radio, for key information like this. And yes, yes, I know the job *can* be done without them, but it can also be done without safety boots, probans, and sun lotion. Doesn't mean to say that it's done *better* without.

* - and in case you're wondering, that's a dig at people who say *never* *ever* act on what you hear on a scanner, not you

[Pete Howarth]

Originally Posted by beltanedeath

post 17 cadwell top of the mountain, me, i/o and flag man. End of race down the mountain to to flag cars up the slip road. Who goes down every race to flag them up the slip road? me, who want to know what the last car is on the track me? who wants to know who crossed the line first? me. Now I could keep taking my eyes off the track to see what post 16 is doing to get an indication of what might or not be happening, or i could keep looking back up the hill to the i/o and shouting "what??". But what about hearing "race winner 23" and "last car on track 19" in my ear? Bingo! all my concentration is on the cars, where it should be, because of the guy who's coming round still at race speed and nearly didn't make turn up slip has ended up parked where i was standing 3 seconds ago.
Sean

When I very regularly did this post as the Observer it was Post 15, my usual flag marshal was my wife. I always passed on who had taken the chequered first and last, I would also pass on comments heard that were relevant, like the winner had passed car x after the chequered.
I started marshalling on my own 20+ years ago and I still remember what it was like.
This is my first year back after a 4 year break, and I feel like a newbie again.
If you're at Cadwell again this year please find me and we can have a chat. I'm sure someone will point me out to you.

[beltanedeath]

Originally Posted by Pete Howarth

When I very regularly did this post as the Observer it was Post 15, my usual flag marshal was my wife. I always passed on who had taken the chequered first and last, I would also pass on comments heard that were relevant, like the winner had passed car x after the chequered.
I started marshalling on my own 20+ years ago and I still remember what it was like.
This is my first year back after a 4 year break, and I feel like a newbie again.
If you're at Cadwell again this year please find me and we can have a chat. I'm sure someone will point me out to you.

next time is the 11 of june for the vintage car, I'll be the one at the leaning on the portacabin office!
Sean

[Nannoonanoo]

Didn't have a scanner in my first year (last year). Was at anglesey post 4, I decided to stay at the post at lunch time due to nice weather and having butties with me. After 10 mins I thought I would cross the track to the paddock and have a wonder, got halfway across the tarmac when I can hear a car traveling at speed, to my horror I see a car at racing speed coming out of the pits. I ran back in time to the post, turns out customers where paying to be taken around by race driver, no one told me to expect this and the post chief had left for lunch with his radio so I just didn't know.
Had a scanner for next meeting, being new at the time never reported it but now I'm typing this beginning to think I should have to stop it happening in the future....

[Pete LMC]

A great deal of discussion has taken place in the past, and no doubt will continue in the future regarding the for and against of using Scanners while On Post.

I will just leave you with this example of the advantage of both having and using one, Oulton Park Gold Cup Event last year 2010, Post Old Hall.

At the end of a Race a message from Race Control, " All Marshals Clear the Circuit Immediately 2 Cars Have Taken The Chequerd Flag Twice "

I can tell you it was a bl**dy good job, that most Marshals on that Post were using scanners

[Woolley]

Am I beginning to see a problem where PCs are so used to everyone having scanners that they're not passing on the information they're hearing? Also the signal for going out on track is the course car?

Seems to me scanners are becoming necessary because proper procedures and passing on of information isn't happening because people have scanners...

I can honestly say I have never, ever needed a scanner and I hope that never changes.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Am I beginning to see a problem where PCs are so used to everyone having scanners that they're not passing on the information they're hearing? Also the signal for going out on track is the course car?

How many PCs do you know who can cover 100 yards and tell everyone, before the cars come around, these days

Yes, Yes, I know: whistles. No good for posts on phones only tho as the message is unlikely to get to the PC in time, and there are other messages that can't be communicated quickly at that sort of range with a whistle.

Scanners are not *necessary* When properly used, they can make things safer and more efficient tho'

[Woolley]

I'm not against them as such and there are times when they can be useful. My worry is they're considered a must have right from the start to the point where they can intefere with the business of learning how a race meeting works and how to marshal properly.

In the last example, no-one should be on track if the course car hasn't come round, and if two cars have taken the flag twice, the course car won't be out, so the message should be superfluous.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I'm not against them as such and there are times when they can be useful. My worry is they're considered a must have right from the start to the point where they can intefere with the business of learning how a race meeting works and how to marshal properly.

No, absolutely agree - people should know how to handle lack of scanner, beit due to battery failure, inaccessible freq, or the impending digital radio., but they are clearly IMHO, a useful tool. Those saying wait at least a year are going too far tho' - that's 60 days for some people.

As far as the above goes, saving even a minute or two after each session to get out there and clear up in today's tight timetables can be a good thing. e.g. 750 run 20 or more sessions a day, and a saving of two minutes a time adds up to over half an hour.

[Power Bulge]

Today I performed the instructions to ignore radio messages in my ear whilst on track dealing with a stricken car. Good news. Sadly, I was also ignoring the one in my hand as RC were trying to contact me. Bad news.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Am I beginning to see a problem where PCs are so used to everyone having scanners that they're not passing on the information they're hearing? Also the signal for going out on track is the course car?

Seems to me scanners are becoming necessary because proper procedures and passing on of information isn't happening because people have scanners...

I think you may be right. Scanners are treating the symptom, not the problem.