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View Poll Results: Who could grow the best beard? | |||
Webber | 50 | 84.75% | |
Vettel | 9 | 15.25% | |
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll |
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6 Oct 2009, 00:48 (Ref:2554850) | #1176 | |
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6 Oct 2009, 01:24 (Ref:2554862) | #1177 | ||
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Adjusting ride heights is nothing new. Altering wings is nothing new. Riding kerbs is nothing new. It's all par for the course for every driver in F1. Crashing is nothing new either... for some more than others. My point is, how many other drivers at Suzuka also had issues with their car bottoming out? How much of Webber's 'poor luck' was self inflicted? What would you have done differently to Webber? |
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6 Oct 2009, 01:33 (Ref:2554867) | #1178 | ||
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His car probably bottomed out the lap before and by some miracle he didn't up in the boonies, therefore he foolishly thought there would be no drama and carried on. He should have felt something in the car at Le Mans in 1999 too and known to come in to get the aero redesigned before the thing went into orbit on the next lap... You have no basis to question his explanation. If he says the thing bottomed out because the thing was riding too lowly, what makes you more credentialled than the bloke sitting in the car to pass judgement? |
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6 Oct 2009, 01:42 (Ref:2554870) | #1179 | ||
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6 Oct 2009, 01:56 (Ref:2554871) | #1180 | ||
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God give me strength.....
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6 Oct 2009, 02:55 (Ref:2554875) | #1181 | |
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For example, F3000 champion and number 1 driver for the famous Newman-Haas team (following the likes of Mansell) hardly indicates a rubbish team mate surely?
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6 Oct 2009, 03:40 (Ref:2554881) | #1182 | |||
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Bloody Hell Lewis Bins it into the wall on the last lap of The Italian GP and no one verbally bashed him this bad. PPL its time to face facts, Vettel is the future, no doubting that, webber still has what it takes to be competitive for now. Red Bull have too bloody good and capeable drivers on their hands and will be right up there next season, i fully forsee them to go one better in the constructors and both SV and MW in the hunt. |
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6 Oct 2009, 04:03 (Ref:2554883) | #1183 | |||
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"You're doing two pitstops? WE'RE doing five pitstops!" |
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"A lot of people go through life doing things badly. Racing’s important to men who do it well. When you’re racing, it... it’s life. Anything that happens before or after... is just waiting." - Steve McQueen |
6 Oct 2009, 04:10 (Ref:2554886) | #1184 | ||
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I wanted Webber to succeed when he entered the sport. But I'm growing tired of all the excuses for his lack of success, poor run of luck, and generally high incident rate. If you go back to Webber's maiden win, it was due in no small part to Massa slowing the field by 2-3s/lap? Hardly an impressive win but Webber had luck on his side that day, for a change. Without that luck, Webber would still be searching for that elusive win. It's just the way I see things, that's all. |
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6 Oct 2009, 04:12 (Ref:2554887) | #1185 | |||
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Having trouble working out who gets first prize out of those two posts, so to both. You know all is well with the world when you can visit this thread every couple of months and find the content unchanged. |
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6 Oct 2009, 09:08 (Ref:2555012) | #1186 | |
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I don't think that 'good luck' was involved with Webber's win in any way.He had the 'bad luck' to get a drive-through,which he recovered from well.It was a very dominant win.
Since then,however,he had a single podium at the following race,and then nothing.It's a bad run,which drivers do have from time to time.My only concern for him is that in the last two races he has made errors in practice that will no doubt have affected his pace during qualifying and the race. |
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6 Oct 2009, 09:31 (Ref:2555032) | #1187 | ||
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There is always something amiss with Webber's performances. Let's agree to disagree then. |
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9 Oct 2009, 00:06 (Ref:2557089) | #1188 | ||
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If Mark didn't deserve that victory then no one else would have. He overcame a penalty and dominated the race, pure and simple.
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That's so frickin uncool man! |
9 Oct 2009, 02:41 (Ref:2557182) | #1189 | ||
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Webber absolutely deserved that victory. He didn't do much wrong apart from the actual incident that resulted in the penalty. Webber did dominate. My (hypothetical) analysis was that he would have been under pressure if the field somehow had found a way past Massa. Yeah, I know, ifs buts maybes... but that's why we have a forum! |
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9 Oct 2009, 07:44 (Ref:2557289) | #1190 | ||
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Mark did very much deserve that victory, he was on a different planet that day, but over the course of the season the results have spoken for Vettel, i think he is the only driver at Red Bull that really is a big star, Webber is good but not championship material.
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9 Oct 2009, 07:49 (Ref:2557296) | #1191 | ||
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9 Oct 2009, 07:54 (Ref:2557301) | #1192 | |
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Mark did very well to win that race. I'm no Webber fan - I don't rate him as highly as some think he should be, but in that race, it was his moment - no doubt.
I think the clock is ticking for him though - there are too many good younger drivers and some very strong match-ups next year (esp if Kimi ends up based at Woking), that I think this may have been Webber's big chance gone - and it's not necessarily all his fault, but that's life. |
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9 Oct 2009, 14:51 (Ref:2557538) | #1193 | |
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As far as the original thread goes .... I think we can call this one.
Unfortunately for the team, the team and both drivers have got it wrong on too many occaisions and burnt a golden opportunity this year IMO. Vettel looks untouchable on his day and I think he'll have many more in the future - he's dominated MW in qualifying and that was a strength of Webber. Webber had him worried mid-season and looked as though he might go on with it but a couple of team errors and his errors have consigned the last few races to the rubbish bin. I think he'll hit back, probably even win another race if the cars good next year but SV has his measure now I'd say. |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
10 Oct 2009, 13:53 (Ref:2558186) | #1194 | |
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This thread is still seeing some heated debate! Webber was solid as they come for the first half season. From Hungary onwards it seems to be his turn to experience some of the dramas that affected Vettel mid season.
Vettel has taken the points lead and Mark wont receover as he will do the right thing and try to tail gate and take points off the Brawns...not to say thats not what he has been trying to do, rather he is now only racing two white cars where earlier he was racing 3 cars. I posted early in this debate that its not right to look at simply the points... Vettel is getting the job done more often and both drivers have had their share of heart ache this season. The mongrel that Webber had when first at Williams is back this year and this is a MUST if he is to remain competitive and side by side with Vettel in 2010. He needs to finish 2009 strong though. So looking back on the past few races...Spa, Webber paid a high price with the Heidfeld clash. Based on the pace of the car, and the great first few laps, he was assured of a 3rd, perhaps (?) better. Then roll on Singapore, an overly aggressive outside move on Alonso, which tanked and brake failure meant it was all for 0 anyway. Then Japan...well, you just cant afford 3 results like that at the end of the year when you are in the hunt...especially when there were strong points to be taken from these races (>4) Circumstance has played a part in killing his 2009 campaign, as mush as his Japanese GP crash and his inability to take the last point in Spain, instead finishing 9th to Buttons 8th...if Vettel faulters in the last two GPs he needs to be there to take the win or bluntly hand Vettel a position in final pit stops etc. I have seen what i needed to from Webber this year, he lifted and the only criticism i think i can level at him is he has been a bit too clever with fuel loads, trying to fuel so that he can jump the KERS cars in the stops knowing he has to go longer and qualifying a position ahead of them does little when they jump you into the first corner. Vettel has been out qualifying Webber and shown, if you back yourself on the first lap then you are at least a chance rather then being back in the pack and rolling the dice. Last edited by OZ_HCR32; 10 Oct 2009 at 14:15. |
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10 Oct 2009, 14:12 (Ref:2558193) | #1195 | |||
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If you look at it all in isolation its easy to start levelling unfair criticism..IMO. |
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10 Oct 2009, 20:57 (Ref:2558379) | #1196 | ||
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I tend to take more notice of Webber and Team Red Bull because I was a supporter of Webber for so long. It's not until that Vettel joined the team that I began to see Webber in a slightly less glowing light. It's been frustrating to watch Webber place himself in a great qualifying position... only to see him blow it at various stages. |
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13 Oct 2009, 03:19 (Ref:2560325) | #1197 | ||
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I also believe Alonso played a big part in where they BOTH ended up & that it was unfair only Webber was penalised. Take another look at the footage and IMHO Webber did a good job of avoiding Alonso who was deliberately forcing him wide at corner entry / mid corner but in doing so, actually outbraked & outcornered himself & also ran over the offending kerb/line. I accept Webber was the overtaking driver but had he not yielded track position it would more than likely have resulted in them both being involved in an accident with Alonso being the main offender by forcing both cars off line... |
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13 Oct 2009, 03:39 (Ref:2560329) | #1198 | |
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I dont agree with that, its just solid racecraft to hang an overtaker out to dry on the outside line. I dont think Webber choked either, it was just racing.
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13 Oct 2009, 03:47 (Ref:2560330) | #1199 | |
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18 Oct 2009, 23:22 (Ref:2564133) | #1200 | ||
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Good To See Mark Secure another win, a strong qualy and a good result, shows that he is not a one trick pony, i think next year will be much the same again with both mark and seb pushing and feeding off each other.
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