[BTCC] BTCC 2022 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by Steel Wheels

Comes from a paddock source & someone who does post on here, but they often can’t divulge much detail, hence my question. As we often see and crmalcolm has mentioned before, if you don’t have ‘facts’ all you get is questions on the validity of rumours or stories.

Thanks to both of you for the information. I wasn't accusing anyone of lying, I was just interested to know how you get this information. It must be fun for this mysterious paddock source to get to control the whole rumour mill for BTCC fans!

[crmalcolm]

On some occasions, the information is circulated to the media with an embargo attached ahead of a certain date / time.

Some people (and the distribution can be quite wide) with access to these releases can:

A) tease a snippet without revealing too much.
B) talk to others, but this puts their access at risk.
C) upload the information to their website, but make the searchable tags indexed too early.

An example of A would be an article that says 'Sutton is understood to be leaving Laser Tools'.

For B, you would hope the people told are able to keep quiet.

A Pirtek branch was guilty of C a few years ago, when they uploaded the story about Jordan and indexed it days before the official release was due.

In these threads, we see examples of all three happening.

We also see examples of someone from the paddock being asked what they want for dessert in a restaurant. Someone overhears 'I'm having Jelly', and next thing we see is 'Jelley linked to [BTCC] team'

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

On some occasions, the information is circulated to the media with an embargo attached ahead of a certain date / time.

Some people (and the distribution can be quite wide) with access to these releases can:

A) tease a snippet without revealing too much.
B) talk to others, but this puts their access at risk.
C) upload the information to their website, but make the searchable tags indexed too early.

An example of A would be an article that says 'Sutton is understood to be leaving Laser Tools'.

For B, you would hope the people told are able to keep quiet.

A Pirtek branch was guilty of C a few years ago, when they uploaded the story about Jordan and indexed it days before the official release was due.

In these threads, we see examples of all three happening.

We also see examples of someone from the paddock being asked what they want for dessert in a restaurant. Someone overhears 'I'm having Jelly', and next thing we see is 'Jelley linked to [BTCC] team'

That is a brilliant explanation and I especially like the bit I've made bold!

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by sceptic

I know he wouldn't be the oldest driver on the grid, but he's not far off 50.

People need to stop obsessing with the past and start supporting the next generation of stars.

If you've got it you've got it regardless of age. The next generation of stars can work their way up the same way that the older guys did if they want.

Somehow I can't imagine many youngsters these days wanting to live in a leaky old caravan and sweep up the pit garages, clean the toilets etc every day to get a chance of a few minutes in a car every now and then.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

If you've got it you've got it regardless of age. The next generation of stars can work their way up the same way that the older guys did if they want.

Somehow I can't imagine many youngsters these days wanting to live in a leaky old caravan and sweep up the pit garages, clean the toilets etc every day to get a chance of a few minutes in a car every now and then.

That's almost the way that James Hunt worked his way up to F1 back in the 60s. It was not at all unusual to find James in the paddock, usually at Brands, climbing out of the back of the Mini van that he used very early in the morning, often looking worse for wear, where he had slept overnight.

He would be there to try to charm his way in to a drive of someone's F3 car, in return for helping out on the spanners. He also did the same to drive Minis in Special Saloon races, which meant that although he did many races, his name didn't always get into the programmes or onto the commentators crib sheets.

[Bump Pass]

Originally Posted by sceptic

I know he wouldn't be the oldest driver on the grid, but he's not far off 50.

People need to stop obsessing with the past and start supporting the next generation of stars.

So the likes of Ingram etc should give their Seats up cause they been here a long time.

Not sure you get how getting a seat in BTCC works my friend.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Bump Pass

So the likes of Ingram etc should give their Seats up cause they been here a long time.

Not sure you get how getting a seat in BTCC works my friend.

Are those two sentences related?

The previous post was about looking to new and emerging talent. It's perfectly feasible that someone knows exactly how getting a seat works, and still hold an opinion on wanting new drivers to emerge.

[mj088]

Originally Posted by Bump Pass

So the likes of Ingram etc should give their Seats up cause they been here a long time.

Not sure you get how getting a seat in BTCC works my friend.

Nobody said that did they? anyway Ingram has a few more years in him yet hes 28

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by mj088

Ingram has a few more years in him yet hes 28

This better be his year! Definitely deserving of a title by now.

[Steel Wheels]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

Thanks to both of you for the information. I wasn't accusing anyone of lying, I was just interested to know how you get this information. It must be fun for this mysterious paddock source to get to control the whole rumour mill for BTCC fans!

No problem, and don’t worry I didn’t take it as if it were made up or lying etc. just pointing out why some people in the know don’t post some of those sorts of rumours like they use too.

I know of one poster who’s been messaged or call by a team principal saying ‘you are getting close to causing us a headache’ if you give anything more away. Sometimes I’m lucky enough to get the off tip bit, but not often

[thetool]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That's almost the way that James Hunt worked his way up to F1 back in the 60s. It was not at all unusual to find James in the paddock, usually at Brands, climbing out of the back of the Mini van that he used very early in the morning, often looking worse for wear, where he had slept overnight.

He would be there to try to charm his way in to a drive of someone's F3 car, in return for helping out on the spanners. He also did the same to drive Minis in Special Saloon races, which meant that although he did many races, his name didn't always get into the programmes or onto the commentators crib sheets.

A completely different era that though. A James Hunt like character today wouldn't be able to do that, even if he wanted to.

[Bump Pass]

Originally Posted by mj088

Nobody said that did they? anyway Ingram has a few more years in him yet hes 28

28 he's almost 30
Better give the seat to an 18 year old.

wE'vE gOt To ThInK oF tHe FuTuRe

[S griffin]

He's quite a young age for a tin top driver is Tingram. Neither a spring chicken or an old stager. I am looking forward to how the Hyundais go this season. If only they had the works backing. Who will be his team mate is anyone's guess

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Are those two sentences related?

The previous post was about looking to new and emerging talent. It's perfectly feasible that someone knows exactly how getting a seat works, and still hold an opinion on wanting new drivers to emerge.

Thanks for preserving some sanity...

I wholy get the point. As much as it's exciting to have some big names that achieved lots of success in past decades, there comes time when presence of 'old generation' is sort of not needed. I mean, few have power to tell them to stop and I acknowledge that but the likes of Neal, Plato or Muller or Priaulx have their prime time behind. They've achieved a lot and are in age that is right to retire.

For instance, Plato's presence in the BTCC is no longer of much interest for me. It's not exactly exciting to think if he reaches 100 wins because he won't, he's no longer the title favourite-villain he used to be - rather an elderly statesman who believes he can still be the touring car hero of the late 90s and 2000s.

It's just a natural generational shift that happens every few years - in many other championships drivers are younger when retire and no one questions that - what's more, many just admit it's 'high time.'

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Bump Pass

So the likes of Ingram etc should give their Seats up cause they been here a long time.

Not sure you get how getting a seat in BTCC works my friend.

I know exactly how getting a seat in BTCC works, and I'm not sure why you think it is anything to do with my comment, which was about some fans' obsession with bringing back drivers from the past rather than supporting the stars of the present.

People who think in 2022 we should have the likes of Priaulx, Muller, Tarquini and Giovanardi* on the BTCC grid are the problem. Their time was two decades ago. It's passed.

Your rose-tinted nostalgia specs have blinded you to the stunning talent we have on the grid now.

Ingram is young enough for Andy Priaulx to be his dad, btw. It may seem like he's been around a long time because we have seen his career since he was in Ginetta Juniors, 14 years ago, but he's in the second of my categories, not the first.

The same goes for Hill, Sutton and Goff.

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Somehow I can't imagine many youngsters these days wanting to live in a leaky old caravan and sweep up the pit garages, clean the toilets etc every day to get a chance of a few minutes in a car every now and then.

All four of those drivers I've mentioned have struggled and made sacrifices to get themselves on the grid, and then to stay there. Jack Goff is the hardest-working driver on the grid.




(*Also applies for those clamouring for the return of Rydell, Thompson and O'Neill)

[bella]

Originally Posted by sceptic

All four of those drivers I've mentioned have struggled and made sacrifices to get themselves on the grid, and then to stay there. Jack Goff is the hardest-working driver on the grid.

well, exactly. it's not just about sleeping in a car or spannering it yourself. it's about the vast number of miniscule performance gains people can and can't afford and have to make up for by taking bigger risks that they can or cannot afford to pay for if they get it wrong. times change. the things people can't afford change too.

[antnee]

Aron Taylor-Smith was living in a caravan at BMR a few years back! That is some sacrifice.

[Csaba]

Originally Posted by InYourMirrors45

Yup! Mr Huff has always stated He’d need to be payed though!

Exactly. Some sources say that his salary was 60% of Zengo's budget this year in WTCR- not counting the "Spanish side of the team" (Azcona, Gené and the engineers) being paid by Cupra.

In the end was it worth it for Zengo??? Tough question, on the marketing side it was. Is Huff worth for a BTCC team that much money? Another tough question.

[InYourMirrors45]

Originally Posted by Csaba

Exactly. Some sources say that his salary was 60% of Zengo's budget this year in WTCR- not counting the "Spanish side of the team" (Azcona, Gené and the engineers) being paid by Cupra.

In the end was it worth it for Zengo??? Tough question, on the marketing side it was. Is Huff worth for a BTCC team that much money? Another tough question.

Cupra paid him not Zengo. But yes I take your point, is it worth it for Toyota/Speedworks when you can just take a driver who’s decent enough and happens to have a massive Cheque book for good measure.

[3marinadrive]

Originally Posted by S griffin

He's quite a young age for a tin top driver is Tingram. Neither a spring chicken or an old stager. I am looking forward to how the Hyundais go this season. If only they had the works backing. Who will be his team mate is anyone's guess

If you take an average age of the 2021 BTCC grid (excluding Geddie, Rivett, Hawkins, Wilmot, Cammish, Halstead who didn't race regularly)...it's about 32 years old.

Only Proctor, Smelt, Mitchell, Butel and Moffat are 25 or under (Mitchell youngest at 23, a few months younger than Proctor)

The top-six in the series were Sutton (27) Turkington (39) Cook (30) Ingram (28) Hill (27) and Shedden (42)....Hill being a month younger than Sutton.

It highlights that the top six drivers this season also gives an average age of 32 years-old...

So maybe experience (Sutton, Hill, ingram have all been on the grid since 2016, 2014 in the case of Ingram)..is still key in BTCC....

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by InYourMirrors45

Cupra paid him not Zengo. But yes I take your point, is it worth it for Toyota/Speedworks when you can just take a driver who’s decent enough and happens to have a massive Cheque book for good measure.

Depends what publicity and levels of exposure he would bring I guess. Whilst he's a decent driver, I believe there are a number of better drivers in the BTCC who wouldn't require paying in that way...

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Not a confirmation, so still a ?
But - very strong suggestion of a drive for 2022 secured:
https://twitter.com/StephenJelley/st...Iiuh9n0DQ&s=03

WSR should have gotten someone else as he is mostly walking bad luck , or did that move over to Oliphant ?

Originally Posted by mprmke

Depends what publicity and levels of exposure he would bring I guess. Whilst he's a decent driver, I believe there are a number of better drivers in the BTCC who wouldn't require paying in that way...

BTCC becoming again the place where high caliber drivers are attracted and highly paid is a rather an utopian dream now

[Bump Pass]

Originally Posted by 3marinadrive

If you take an average age of the 2021 BTCC grid (excluding Geddie, Rivett, Hawkins, Wilmot, Cammish, Halstead who didn't race regularly)...it's about 32 years old.

Only Proctor, Smelt, Mitchell, Butel and Moffat are 25 or under (Mitchell youngest at 23, a few months younger than Proctor)

The top-six in the series were Sutton (27) Turkington (39) Cook (30) Ingram (28) Hill (27) and Shedden (42)....Hill being a month younger than Sutton.

It highlights that the top six drivers this season also gives an average age of 32 years-old...

So maybe experience (Sutton, Hill, ingram have all been on the grid since 2016, 2014 in the case of Ingram)..is still key in BTCC....

All too old better give the entitled kids their seats....

Its what the internet demands

[mj088]

Originally Posted by Bump Pass

All too old better give the entitled kids their seats....

Its what the internet demands

You have made this same strawman argument about 3 or 4 times now when precisely nobody has been saying this.

Can you either source your comment to show where someone has given this view, or get over it?

[Bump Pass]

Originally Posted by mj088

You have made this same strawman argument about 3 or 4 times now when precisely nobody has been saying this.

Can you either source your comment to show where someone has given this view, or get over it?

Not arguing anything friend.
Seems like you are looking for an argument.

With peace and love, peace and love,
You're barking up the wrong tree if you think you're getting one here.