ALMS 2011 Discussion - Page 49

Speed-King · 15 Jan 2011, 15:06 (Ref:2816080)

Quote:

As a sports car fan (I actually prefer the GT's btw) I watch the World Challenge as much as possible, but take a look at how this country has embraced that GT only series. Look to the future, how is an IMSA GT Series going to fair against Ratel's new US GT3 and the new US DTM? New fans notice the Prototypes but stay for GT's. Prototypes will capture more new eyes than the GT's will, even if the GT's are what will become their favorite class. I love the mixed LMP / GT field and the crazy closing speeds and traffic.

Just from my personal experience it's rather the other way around. All my none racign friends love the GTs when they come along for a race, but nobody has much interest in "those weird looking prototypes".

Fogelhund · 15 Jan 2011, 16:31 (Ref:2816103)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catingaround

The ALMS doesn't need works teams in LMP. There are privateers willing to spend the money, let them. Last years limited LMP field put on a great show. .

How good was the attendance at events for PSCR or WSC? The ALMS is going to lose a lot of fans if it is a privateer show... attendance will go down.

The Badger · 15 Jan 2011, 17:05 (Ref:2816105)

Why , if the spectacle is still there ?

carsten66 · 15 Jan 2011, 17:56 (Ref:2816119)

This discussion will lead to nothing... a never ending story of opinions, opposite views, hang-ups... for some time it was fine but now it get's boring.

JAG · 15 Jan 2011, 19:24 (Ref:2816148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

What??? Have you seen the GT field? It's one thing to dream that (I think most of us do) but with the ILMC around and most manufacturers looking for road relevancy, you can't be serious.

100% serious, as for the line about manufacturers looking for road relevancy (in the models themselves, not technology transferral) I don't see any evidence for that.

What I do see is manufacturers with a suitable road car offering a GT variation, whether it be GTE or GT3, to customers with the potential once again of Corvette being the lone factory participant. Those same manufacturers invest most of their time and resources in P1 or F1 projects, i.e. Audi, Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, Lotus, Aston etc.

GT racing for the most part is a privateer activity, privateers don't have loyalty to a particular class and history shows they make a move if the odds of success seem particularly low. GTE can be a money pit, in the ALMS the latest spec and pro drivers are needed, in P2 they could run competitively with the same car for multiple seasons, subsidise costs with a pay driver and strike up a relationship with a manufacturer like Honda.

I'm not saying GT racing will disappear, only we'll see a realinement of the classes with a more even distribution of teams. My biggest hope for GT racing in the ALMS is they focus on GTE with Pro and Am classes rather than potentially letting that class shrink dramatically and forcing themselves to rely on GTC to boost numbers.

dj4monie · 15 Jan 2011, 19:39 (Ref:2816153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carsten66

This discussion will lead to nothing... a never ending story of opinions, opposite views, hang-ups... for some time it was fine but now it get's boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

How good was the attendance at events for PSCR or WSC? The ALMS is going to lose a lot of fans if it is a privateer show... attendance will go down.

This comes from the - "If you don't learn from history your doomed to repeat it" file.

WSC - FAILURE!

PSCR - Classic case of mismanagement

Is it any wonder the IMSA is even around after those?

What do people remember about that era? GT-P's and GTO/S

You had several divisions of GM involved (Olds, Pontiac and Chevy), along with Ford, Toyota, Jaguar, Porsche, BMW, Alfa Romeo, Mazda and Nissan.

Prototypes have their place when OEM's will support it, when they don't you should drop it, you can always bring it back.

They always kept the GT classes, why because its easy to build a series around those cars, that should tell you something...

JAG · 15 Jan 2011, 19:52 (Ref:2816155)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

If the manufactures want back in to LMP, then you get the commitment from at least two companies and re-open the class. As I said nobody really moans about GT1's being axed while at the same time bashing Ratel. Mention prototypes and Ohhhh you can't do that.

That's because Corvette where the last standing GT1 constructor not just in the ALMS but the world.

In LMP you have Audi, Peugeot, Aston, Honda, Toyota, Lola, Oreca, Zytek, Riley and a host of engine builders, whats more they are investing in products that will be all new for the 2011 season.

Speed-King · 15 Jan 2011, 19:59 (Ref:2816160)

Quote:

Prototypes have their place when OEM's will support it, when they don't you should drop it, you can always bring it back.

I'd actually disagree with that... the OEMs alone will rarely field enough cars to make for a full field of prototypes, you'll usually need some privateers to make up the numbers and these won't turn up out of nowhere...

When the ACO established the ELMS and later the LMS they had the FIA-SCC field to built on, without that, I doubt we'd ever have seen more than a dozen or so prototypes in LMS...

And even when IMSA brough in the GTPs it was pretty much an organic transition as the later 935s weren't really far away from the early GTPs in terms of technology and sophistication.

Creating a prototype field out of nothing will be extremely challenging at best and downright impossible at the worst.
Privateer prototype teams have to be groomed, but that does not necessarily mean that they have to be part of the same series as the suppossed-to-be headline GT-class. That's why I would advocate outsourcing the prototypes into their own series together with IMSA Lights or a CN-style class for the time being.

Speed-King · 15 Jan 2011, 20:01 (Ref:2816163)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

That's because Corvette where the last standing GT1 constructor not just in the ALMS but the world.

In LMP you have Audi, Peugeot, Aston, Honda, Toyota, Lola, Oreca, Zytek, Riley and a host of engine builders, whats more they are investing in products that will be all new for the 2011 season.

Not quite, if you include the privateer efforts to justify the continued existence of LMPs, you'll also have to count the privateer/semi-werks GT1 efforts (Matech, Reiter, Nissan) when you try to rationalize that class' demise...

Mal · 16 Jan 2011, 09:14 (Ref:2816289)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I'd actually disagree with that... the OEMs alone will rarely field enough cars to make for a full field of prototypes, you'll usually need some privateers to make up the numbers and these won't turn up out of nowhere...
.

2008 proved that you only need 2 OEM's to produce a fantastic season - lets wait and see - there definitely appears to be some new momentum worldwide with the amount of OEMs having or rumoured to be having new projects - and they would not do that if there was no market - so optimistically I am with JAG and see a brighter future for LMP

Speed-King · 16 Jan 2011, 09:26 (Ref:2816291)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

2008 proved that you only need 2 OEM's to produce a fantastic season - lets wait and see - there definitely appears to be some new momentum worldwide with the amount of OEMs having or rumoured to be having new projects - and they would not do that if there was no market - so optimistically I am with JAG and see a brighter future for LMP

2008 had 3 OEMs (or 4 if you count Mazda) - and I consider that an extraordinary situation, especially Acuras approach of fielding three, later four independent teams rather than a two car works effort - and with the ILMC I don't see that situation coming back easily.

If you only have two conventional two car works efforts that will make for great racing, but you'll lack the numbers for a credible prototype field.

Fogelhund · 16 Jan 2011, 12:00 (Ref:2816331)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

there definitely appears to be some new momentum worldwide with the amount of OEMs having or rumoured to be having new projects - and they would not do that if there was no market - so optimistically I am with JAG and see a brighter future for LMP

Even "if" so, those manufacturers will gravitate towards ILMC. In the context of the ALMS, which this thread is about it appears as though LMP's are perhaps something that should appear at only the ILMC races.

The Badger · 17 Jan 2011, 01:11 (Ref:2816579)

I reckon the ex RML Lola Honda is headed for Level 5 ? Makes sense .

WMUCarGuy · 17 Jan 2011, 02:03 (Ref:2816587)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

I reckon the ex RML Lola Honda is headed for Level 5 ? Makes sense .

Level 5 is buying open cars, not RMLs coupe.

**joeb** · 17 Jan 2011, 02:06 (Ref:2816589)

I just noticed an IMSA bulletin from last week that says all cars have to run with headlights and taillights on at all times day and night. Is that a new rule for 2011? I don't remember seeing all cars with headlights on in the past, but then again if it was daytime maybe I didn't notice them....

The Badger · 17 Jan 2011, 02:19 (Ref:2816592)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Level 5 is buying open cars, not RMLs coupe.

Open toppers !!! ..... where did you hear that from ?

Are they new build or ex someone else ?

Cool if they do .

Victor_RO · 17 Jan 2011, 07:09 (Ref:2816623)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Open toppers !!! ..... where did you hear that from ?

Are they new build or ex someone else ?

Cool if they do .

New build, there was a photo of Luis Diaz at the Lola factory with one of the two new tubs ordered by the team.

Accident · 17 Jan 2011, 07:39 (Ref:2816630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

I just noticed an IMSA bulletin from last week that says all cars have to run with headlights and taillights on at all times day and night. Is that a new rule for 2011? I don't remember seeing all cars with headlights on in the past, but then again if it was daytime maybe I didn't notice them....

That's unfortunate...

I've never been a fan of the yellow headlights for the GT cars, and now every picture will have them stabbing my eyes.

Not as big of a deal on the prototypes to me because they have the nicer looking white lights, but then again I don't care about the prototypes as much as the GT cars.

Matt · 17 Jan 2011, 08:03 (Ref:2816634)

Not a fan of bulletin 5.17 either.

Cuttlefish · 17 Jan 2011, 10:13 (Ref:2816685)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebanza

That's unfortunate...

I've never been a fan of the yellow headlights for the GT cars, and now every picture will have them stabbing my eyes.

Not as big of a deal on the prototypes to me because they have the nicer looking white lights, but then again I don't care about the prototypes as much as the GT cars.

Haven't the cars always run with headlights on? I just checked a couple 2010 races on RacingSportscars to make sure, and with very few exceptions they all have headlights on. Most seem to using "daytime running lights" where only one of the two bulbs per cluster is on during the day.

KA · 17 Jan 2011, 10:46 (Ref:2816700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Level 5 is buying open cars, not RMLs coupe.

There was a piece about Level 5 on DSC a few weeks back confirming that it was the open car, but the team manager also mentioned that they were looking at having a third car based in Europe for Le Mans, and maybe some ILMC races- and that this might be a coupe....
The author of the article did include a comment speculating about the identity of the car, the European team that might be involved, and who might just happen to have a coupe for sale....

**Bentley03** · 17 Jan 2011, 12:02 (Ref:2816726)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuttlefish

Haven't the cars always run with headlights on? I just checked a couple 2010 races on RacingSportscars to make sure, and with very few exceptions they all have headlights on. Most seem to using "daytime running lights" where only one of the two bulbs per cluster is on during the day.

I may be wrong, but reading between the lines, the bulletin is surely stating that the rule is going to be strictly enforced this year. My memory is not the best, but I'm sure you're right in as much as it has always been compulsary for cars in the ALMS to run with head and tail lights on, per ACO rules.

dxk1 · 17 Jan 2011, 22:02 (Ref:2817056)

So West Racing seem serious. They have named at least two of their Pilots for the ALMS 2011 season: Pastorelli & Schwager. See here: http://www.americanlemans.com/primar...cat=news|15464

DK

carsten66 · 17 Jan 2011, 22:59 (Ref:2817091)

Good morning guys, the Level 5 and West Racing stories are old stuff...

Simmi · 17 Jan 2011, 23:02 (Ref:2817094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carsten66

Good morning guys, the Level 5 and West Racing stories are old stuff...

Yeah I was wondering why West Racing are announcing something today we knew well over a week ago.

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