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20 Apr 2014, 06:48 (Ref:3395352) | #101 | ||
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Just going on the footage, I would have been surprised if a red flag had been called for that. I understand that there had been yellow flags for a couple of laps, and I would have expected that there was a caution board once those had been removed, so there isn't a great deal of excuse for any following drivers to have had an accident at that part of the circuit. Not a splendid piece of journalism, either.
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20 Apr 2014, 08:09 (Ref:3395396) | #102 | |||
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as asp said if the drivers had kept the cars on the track then there wouldn't be anything to talk about. Racing and risk is about percentages, I've seen plenty of cars off in worse positions that haven't been hit, and some that have been pushed back into a gap in yeh Armco and still somehow got hit by another car |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:18 (Ref:3395432) | #103 | |
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Sorry but anyone that says that car is in a safe place is completely wrong. If it was in a safe place then why is there a tyre barrier? 2 McLarens were written off there last year.
All the drivers came into the pits expecting a red flag that never came. Poor decision by race control and bad information supplied by the marshals. |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:26 (Ref:3395434) | #104 | |||
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And before slandering/slagging off the marshals I assume that you know EXACTLY what information the marshals gave to race control? I've known a lot of decisions/suggestions by marshals made n the ground being overruled by race control!...suggest you retract your innacurate and offensive comment Last edited by ascarracinguk; 20 Apr 2014 at 09:32. |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:31 (Ref:3395436) | #105 | |||
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In any event, Oulton Park is now covered by CCTV so Race Control presumably did look at it themselves and made a decision based on a combination of what they could see on camera; what the reports from the relevant post said; and other relevant factors. |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:33 (Ref:3395438) | #106 | |
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I'm pretty well informed from both parties. I know the Porsche driver repeatedly asked the marshals to red flag it to which their response was no. Race Control admitted afterwards they should of red flagged it as the car was in a place of danger. Think blame is quite easily laid at their feet.
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20 Apr 2014, 09:35 (Ref:3395441) | #107 | ||
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And exactly what information was passed on from the marshals? You've just repeated exactly what was in the article....I can do that and be just as informed.
So you don't think ANY of the blame lies at the drivers feet for spinning off in the first place, and then pushing too hard and crashing into a car that you KNOW is there, in his own words in an 'unsafe position', if it's that unsafe, back off, don't push to get a faster time! |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:40 (Ref:3395446) | #108 | |
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You've lost me? The marshals were saying it wasn't a red flag... So it wasn't. And now we know that was a bad decision. So the marshals and race control have caused 200k of damage. 4 GT cars in 2 meetings at OP at the corner should be enough to highlight that area of barrier as high risk.
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20 Apr 2014, 09:41 (Ref:3395447) | #109 | |||
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The marshals who are in contact with Race Control (the post chiefs) are, at this post, based in the big brick box in the middle of the loop. The Porsche went off on the outside of the circuit. The marshals on the outside, who the Porsche driver would have been speaking to it, may well have been asked to red flag it. And they may well have said no. On the basis that (1) They have no authority to red flag a session and (2) They probably wouldn't have been able to communicate any request to race control. Any such "no" must be considered in the context that they couldn't. The information provided to Race Control by "the marshals" would have come from the Post Chief(s) on the inside of the circuit. If anyone other than them or people in race control know what was said (who, of course, will not be commenting on this incident), then I'd like to know how... |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:48 (Ref:3395449) | #110 | |
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I think an apology from the race director to the 2 cars involved appoints blame to him and his team (marshals, post chiefs etc).
Quote taken from the article. Benjamin Franassovici British gt championship manager “There was communication between the local [stewards] and the race director, and it was felt a red flag wasn’t necessary,” states series director Benjamin Franassovici. “Then this has occurred, which is extremely unfortunate. I’m going to see the [officials] now because I’m obviously disappointed with them. It’s unfortunate. I’ve never seen that happen. It’s not a good one, and I’m concerned for the teams. I’m not happy.” |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:50 (Ref:3395450) | #111 | |||
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2 drivers caused 200k of damage...one spun off, the other chose to push for a faster time in an area where he thought a car was in an unsafe position, you say that the marshals and race control made a bad decision and the blame lies with them, HOW BAD is the decision by an international racing driver to PUSH to get a faster time in a free practice session KNOWINGLY when there is a car that he deems to be in an unsafe position.....that's a BAD DECISION!....blame cannot wholly lie with race control as you and the drivers put it! |
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20 Apr 2014, 09:56 (Ref:3395455) | #112 | ||
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These aren't international drivers they are a mix of gentleman drivers and pros. Both of these drivers were gentleman. Also with 2 drivers getting in and out of the car during a session if the yellow flag is removed how would the new driver know about the incident. The entry to that corner is over 100mph so a small mistake because a big one quickly. |
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20 Apr 2014, 10:04 (Ref:3395460) | #113 | |||
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20 Apr 2014, 10:08 (Ref:3395463) | #114 | |
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Ok well when I spoke direct to Jody he said the marshals at the scene of his car said no to when he asked for the Red flag. The clark of the course also said to me direct that no one on circuit asked for a red flag.
Pretty conclusive. Either Jody is lying, don't think so. Clark of the course is lying, don't think so Or no red flag was requested, think so. |
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20 Apr 2014, 10:12 (Ref:3395469) | #115 | |||
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You've avoided one of my points though.....why push for a faster time in a free practice session knowing there's a car there that as a driver you deem to be unsafe? Bad decision? Any blame lying with the drivers or is it wholly the circuits fault? |
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20 Apr 2014, 10:20 (Ref:3395474) | #116 | |
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Sorry didn't mean to miss that point. No yellow flag would indicate circuit is clear so why slow down? Drivers is trusting the car is in a safe place. At speed not easy to make the right decision. Hence why we have marshals, race directors etc.
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20 Apr 2014, 10:40 (Ref:3395482) | #117 | ||
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There was a hazard board indicating there was a car off....my point is in the article the drivers felt that the car was in an unsafe position....so why push so hard in that sector....you can turn it down to 9/10ths.....after all it was only a practice session as both drivers used as argument for why it should have been red flagged. It's very easy to sit on a computer trying to apportion blame after looking at a video. What you don't have is any real idea of the communication between track and race control, any of the thought process behind the decisions and any of the experience of oulton park over the years. The marshals are there week in week out....their and race controls decisions aren't just necessarily based on 1 accident....it's based on years of racing.....there are 20 practice and race sessions a weekend, around 25 meetings a year and decades of experience between them all......statistically that accident is very small.....so at the time maybe it was the right call based on their perception of the car/risks.....hindsight is a wonderful thing but it's not what they have during a session
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21 Apr 2014, 07:54 (Ref:3396083) | #118 | |
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Can you just argue somewhere else?
Can't wait for race 1 - the best looking front row in motorsports history. 2 Astons... |
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21 Apr 2014, 11:09 (Ref:3396154) | #119 | |
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Looks like Caine has this won...
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21 Apr 2014, 11:17 (Ref:3396159) | #120 | |
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Unless there are post race penalties, it is:
1 - Al Harthy/Caine 2 - Lathouras/Lyons 3 - Howard/Adam 4 - Patterson/Bell 5 - Dryburgh/Gaw GT4: 1 - Wylie/Giddings 2 - Yusuf/Kershaw 3 - Jarman/Modell |
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21 Apr 2014, 13:29 (Ref:3396209) | #121 | |||
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Marshals who were with the driver would not have any knowledge of whether a red flag was requested, nor any means - or reason - for requesting one. That request would be made by the Post Chief in the middle of the circuit in consultation with the clerk of course. However, the driver is also not the person who makes the request and yelling at the marshals (I'm guessing that's what 'remonstrating' meant in that article) isn't going to change that. The article and the comments of the driver and those who know him simply show a basic lack of understanding of flag signals and of the basic communication systems at a race meeting. A day on the bank with the marshals might be a valuable learning experience... Which is not to comment on whether the decision is good or bad as I simply don't know the details. However, these decisions are always judgement calls and there is no right or wrong until hindsight kicks in. To lay all of the blame on the marshals is wrong as the cause of the second accident is down to the decision making of the guy holding the steering wheel. The result is highly unfortunate, but not predictable. It's a very unusual place for one car to go off, and more so for two. |
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21 Apr 2014, 15:46 (Ref:3396254) | #122 | |
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Ecurie Ecosse powered by Black Bull (BMW Z4 GT3) drivers Alexander Sims & Marco Attard won British GT at Oulton Park 2 race, second Phil Keen & Jon Minshaw and third Jonathan Adam & Andrew Howard.
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21 Apr 2014, 19:12 (Ref:3396353) | #123 | |
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What a day at Oulton. Weather was glorious. Helped me dry off the remainder of my stuff from Silverstone.
Such a great track for spectators. Really good action. The Bentley's sounded incredible in the flesh. But what a great grid British GT has now. |
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21 Apr 2014, 19:22 (Ref:3396359) | #124 | ||
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Lovely day, stayed dry throughout. The field benefitted hugely from a strong GT4 field and the valance worked really well.
Not sure how the crowd compares, bit was impressive to see how many people there were with British GT leading the bill and no F3 race at all. Wonder how the crowd compared to Silverstone WEC. |
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22 Apr 2014, 12:33 (Ref:3396673) | #125 | ||
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It was indeed. Really nice day out for me even if it was a 3hr drive each way. What a nice circuit, I like the surroundings like the wooded area on the approach to Druids. The last time I was there was 2009 for the Gold Cup.
The GT grid looked really nice, I never thought I would be that partial to GT3 machinery. Got some cracking photos too (by my standards!). I loved watching the historics at Druids. |
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