Formula Atlantic etc (was 'Chevron B29s') - Page 5

Chris Townsend · 17 May 2003, 22:14 (Ref:602154)

Allen

If tub 732-15 is an equivalent to the chassis then this is a rebuild of Beuttler's 732-9 by Brian Lewis using the tub from what was intended to be 732-15 after Beuttler destroys chassis 9 at Rouen.

The complicating factor is that this may [allegedly] have subsequently been rebuilt as a 742 [10] for Heavens [the car raced by Antonio Prado in '75] Despite the fact that Jorg Obermoser has also got a 742-10 raced by Dave Walker and Harald Ertl in '74 which is a different car altogether.

Chris

Armco Bender · 17 May 2003, 23:19 (Ref:602209)

A Question,What is the difference between a tub and a chassis?.Isn't the tub the chassis,or is the chassis the tub with wheels and gearbox?.

Bryan Miller · 17 May 2003, 23:38 (Ref:602225)

Armco, March has [should have] a chassis plate rivetted on to alloy panel, which will say ,E.G. 732-9 , which at that stage could have meant an F2 or an F/atlantic.
On a certain part of the car was also stampted a tub no. E.G. 732-6 .Sometimes these were the same , but only when new,and it did not take long for cars to get damaged , you then got a replacement tubE.G. 732-20 and slid it under your chassis plate and ended up with Chassis no.732-9 plate under tub 732-20 and went on your merry way till you stuffed it again .
In the meantime your original may have been repaired and was sitting at March or Thompson's all lost and lonely untill it went into service again this time in what used to be say, 732-32.
Then along come people like say Fred Smith and buy a rebuilt tub and parts and build the whole mess up in 1976 and people like Chris,Allen ,myself and various others go nuts trying to figure it all out.
Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 17 May 2003, 23:48 (Ref:602233)

Chris, tryed faxing you and Allen , Allen may have rec'd. 1 or 2 pages at best.Will post some F5000 stuff to Allen on Mon. so will send your's as well and he can get it to you.
I will include F3 only because it may help sort out Modus mysteries as at the British G.P. 75 we have 2 Atl./Brise and Gygax,and 6xF3 all at same meeting.
Bryan.

Armco Bender · 18 May 2003, 04:45 (Ref:602314)

So Marches,and most cars are like Grandpa's axe,7 new heads and 10 new handles,but still Grandpa's original.
So you can take the chassis plate and slap it on a new tub too,and still call it the original car as long as you have that original chassis plate?.

Bryan Miller · 18 May 2003, 05:04 (Ref:602321)

Armco, To a certain extent yes , but there are cars about that are still on the original combination,as in Aust. , more likely scenario would be to take dead tub to somebody and reskin or rebuild with new bulkheads or whatever as there did not exist a changeover service as there was at March.
To answer your original question that I managed to totally ignore ,to me a chassis is a tube frame car and a tub is a monocque but others may see it differently.
Some cars lead sheltered lives as say my BT35-8 , 23 races from new,other cars could have done 23 races in a season,especially if you were running F2 or F1 championship or similar and the budget was there to allow spare cars even,also a lot of chassis plate swapping went on to facilitate border crossing in Europe.
Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 18 May 2003, 09:23 (Ref:602385)

Chris, I had my Mac mixed up , claimed to be , Brendan McInerney,Tony Trimmer, then Brian McGuire the 3rd of the A.I.R.O. team. sorry.
However it is BT28-20 and the A.M. no is a 69 stamping , thence to Dick Barker for 1972 thence traded to Bob Howlings who ran it in club events then sold to Aust. Greg Bowden who returned to Aust. with car in 1973/4.
End result is BT28-20 is here for your information.
If you go to Irish Atlantic I will post some BT30 bits.
Regards Bryan.

allenbrown · 18 May 2003, 11:47 (Ref:602473)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Chris, tryed faxing you and Allen , Allen may have rec'd. 1 or 2 pages at best.

Nothing arrived here

Quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Will post some F5000 stuff to Allen on Mon. so will send your's as well and he can get it to you.

Thanks

Will do.

eldougo · 19 May 2003, 07:07 (Ref:603120)

Bryan Miller ----- welcome the GADET man good to see you online.

Doug grant.

Smellybeard · 29 May 2003, 14:14 (Ref:613671)

...so where do I look for "a tub no." on a 74 1/2B? It has cast front bulkheads and rere rads but otherwise looks like a 74B.

Modus M3-027 is looking a bit rough but still has life in it. Hopefully it will race this year.

Dave.

Bryan Miller · 30 May 2003, 08:11 (Ref:614472)

Smellybeard, under the roll over bar on the lhs should be a no.
741/2B is this what is on a chassis plate ???
Where did your car come from and when.??????????

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 1 Jun 2003, 18:47 (Ref:617013)

Smellybeard

You also seem to have the old Richard Scott Modus - a car with a good bit of history, and last heard of wrapped round an Irish mountain. Can you tell us more of how and when it came to you?

Perhaps on the Modus thread though [Title: Racing a la mode]

Chris

Bryan Miller · 2 Jun 2003, 10:39 (Ref:617577)

Smellybeard, when I sold my Modus to my brother he also was given 3 photo's of the 2 Dicksons of Perth M3 cars, certainly 1 photo must be before they raced and includes the team transporter , all complete with British Caledonian Airways livery and looking absolutely stunning in black and yellow two tone .
Kevin , if you see this can you pull photo's and place here.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 2 Jun 2003, 12:35 (Ref:617703)

Bryan

That 'black' is a royal blue. They did look good, and Dickson's ran a very professional outfit, all the way up to the Lotus 78 that Norman ran with Colin Bennett racing in the AFX series.

Chris

Kevin Miller · 3 Jun 2003, 01:01 (Ref:618623)

I will find the photo mentioned and post it on Thursday. Cheers, Kevin.

Kevin Miller · 3 Jun 2003, 01:04 (Ref:618626)

I will post the photos on the Modus (a la Mode) thread. Kevin.

Bryan Miller · 3 Jun 2003, 09:02 (Ref:618910)

Chris.

I have found a Racing Car News [Aust.] adv. July 1973 by Graham Lawrence using N.Z. adress .

Brabham BT30 , for sale Hart 1.6 litre and also 2.0 litre FVC.
I have never heard of one over in Kiwiland , do you have any suspicions of one emmigrating.

Bryan.

Armco Bender · 3 Jun 2003, 10:39 (Ref:618986)

Scrolled back through the Tasman series as far as I can see Graeme Lawrence never used a BT30,in '68 he had a BT18.Lawrences were a family of car dealers so it may have been a car from Asia he horse traded?.

Bryan Miller · 3 Jun 2003, 10:45 (Ref:618993)

Armco, thanks for confirming , I have never seen any ref. in period in N.Z. or Aust. to a BT30 in our neck of the woods.
I suppose he had contacts in the U.K. and poss. trying to move a car for somebody.
Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 3 Jun 2003, 10:49 (Ref:618997)

Chris , if you see the above , I have just found a Players Quebec report and grid , apart from anything else there are 11 75Bs on the grid.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 3 Jun 2003, 12:59 (Ref:619120)

Bryan

Yup, 12 March 75Bs built, plus one prototype, plus at least one tub and new plate grafted onto an older car, and possible one 'special'.

The 12 'proper' cars all went to North America
3 go to Shierson for Syd Demovsky/Richard Melville/Jim Batchelor/Tom Pumpelly/Vince Muzzin and Brambilla at Trois Rivieres [this may have been a new car out of series]
1 goes to Interscope for John Woodner
1 goes to Tim Cooper
1 goes to Don Briedenbach
1 goes to who ever runs Price Cobb
2 go to who ever runs Chip Mead, and the spare is sometimes raced by Cliff Hansen
1 goes to Craig Hill [and if anyone from the Canadian Group is reading this perhaps they could help us with Craig's cars]
1 [chassis 10] goes to Bertil Roos, and he races it in UK before shipping it back to Canada
1 goes to Ecurie Canada for Villeneuve

The above is based on analysing the appearances at all the Canadian races, which, given Shierson's engine contract, allows you to identify who he entered at a particular race even when you're not told who enters a particular driver.
The only car that seems to disappear in the course of the series is Demovsky's, so I'm guessing he threw it at a wall somewhere.

Eric Kerman and Tom Crowther appear at the SCCA finals at the end of the year with 75Bs which I guess are secondhand.

The prototype:
Autosport track tests a 75B at the end of 74 - together with a 753 and 752 - so one exists. Derek Cook then appears with a 75B at Boxing Day Brands Hatch race, 1974. This should [if March followed a logical numbering on prototypes] be 75B-U1

However, 75B-U1 is allegedly the number given to Mallock's rebuild of the ex Coulon 742. Autosport records this as the chassis number when this car appears at the F2 race at Thruxton in 75. Possibly there were two U1s, or else Cook had returned his prototype [he bought a B29 at some point in 1975] and March turned it round to Mallock!

Cook's cars are a bit of a nightmare. His B29 went to Jeremy Rossiter in short order and he bought an old B27, which was, or was not, depending on who you believe, the same B27 he'd raced in 1974!
He's the father of Paula Cook [I think] who raced F3 a few years back.

Chris

Chris Townsend · 3 Jun 2003, 13:02 (Ref:619126)

One error in that screed: For Demovsky car as written off read Briedenbach

Chris

allenbrown · 3 Jun 2003, 14:46 (Ref:619242)

I'm in touch with Don. What do you need me to ask him?

Chris Townsend · 3 Jun 2003, 15:51 (Ref:619329)

Allen

You mean Briedenbach?
All sorts really. What was his 75B, stuffed or sold? Who to?
Usual things concerning single seaters. What other Atlantic did he run?

One question worth asking is how many Chevron B42s did John David Briggs really have in the 78 Euro F2 season. There could have been as many as five between him and Briedenbach, depending on whether you believe F1R and/or the chassis numbers for Dean and Robinson's cars in the AFX series in 79 which are all described as ex Briggs and which don't wholly [much] agree with F1R.

Armco Bender · 3 Jun 2003, 21:20 (Ref:619698)

Quote:

BT30 in our neck of the woods.

Weren't the Hart 1.6 litre and also 2.0 litre FVC engines what they used in Asian F2 at that time,GL did most of his racing round the Asian circuits,in the results of that period BT30s are featured,most likely a car from there.GL still lives in Hamilton, NZ,to the best of my knowledge,he should be in the Telecom NZ white pages if you wanted to fax him.