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23 Aug 2015, 10:28 (Ref:3567879) | #101 | ||
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I imagine Arai San is feeling some serious heat from his bosses back in Japan. So he decided on a three-pronged attack:
1. Blame the McLaren chassis 2. Big-up the new engine tweaks 3. Take advantage of the new penalty rules take all the penalties in one go, and have them diluted to nearly nothing. With 50 and 55 places of penalties, by my reckoning JB and Ferdie should be starting the race from the A3 just outside of Brussels. |
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24 Aug 2015, 00:28 (Ref:3568066) | #102 | ||
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They came in 13th and 14th today. I don't think that's a bad result at all, all things considered.
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24 Aug 2015, 00:39 (Ref:3568071) | #103 | ||
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It needs hindsight to know whether to have continued with Merc. These things have to be planned well in advance and one would think Honda would be a stable enough proposition to deliver a stable enough powerplant in their first year.
I don't know what Honda were up to at all. Still the partnership should pay off in the long term. |
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24 Aug 2015, 00:51 (Ref:3568075) | #104 | ||
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24 Aug 2015, 01:19 (Ref:3568090) | #105 | ||
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Quote:
They are a manufacturer backed team with a realistic chance of competing for a World Championship, well camouflaged as it is at present. Also, looking at the facts again without hindsight, would Ron have made a different decision, I think not, ergo right decision made! Hope the combination gets better results very soon! Not sure how enthusiastic I am about 13th and 14th out of 16 finishers, only ahead of the Marussia minnows, I can be. |
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24 Aug 2015, 11:39 (Ref:3568211) | #106 | |||
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I think I might still have had faith in Honda to come good in the end, but two things this weekend have told me that it probably won't happen: 1. Arai making whacky claims for the upgrades and implying that the McLaren is a big part of the problem. 2. Honda dismissing the idea of poaching some people who might know about hybrid F1 engines because "that's not the Honda culture". One shows desperation and the other shows that they're not prepared to learn. |
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24 Aug 2015, 13:56 (Ref:3568261) | #107 | ||
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But ultimately who provides Mclaren the best chance of winning races?
It's all just hindsight, but so far only Merc built cars have won with a Merc engine. I imagine RB is asking themselves that question now as are Merc no doubt wondering what happens if they sell their engines to a team with significant resources. After all there is a reason no top team is even interested in contemplating buying the Ferrari package. Can one reasonably expect support from an engine maker while challenging them for wins? all things being equal, the money that Honda brings is the trump card in this equation imo. |
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24 Aug 2015, 14:31 (Ref:3568273) | #108 | |||
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24 Aug 2015, 18:11 (Ref:3568334) | #109 | ||
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What "is" the Honda culture. My perception has been that they have always tried to use motorsports as way to help cycle various engineers through the motorsports engineering section. That might not make sense if your goal is to be #1 in that you focus on hiring knowledge from wherever you can find it. But it probably does help the overall engineering knowledge inside of your company. I think the right solution is a mixture of the two. Bring in experts as needed and cycle your younger staff through to give them experience and knowledge they wouldn't get otherwise. Richard |
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24 Aug 2015, 23:07 (Ref:3568424) | #110 | |
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The problem with hiring in the expertise is that you effectively publish all your secrets and competitive advantages, so it is very much a double edged sword.
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25 Aug 2015, 14:54 (Ref:3568626) | #111 | |||
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actually would be a nice change of pace, if Honda came up with something that others teams wanted enough to try to snag their employees. which in a way is what Merc got when it took over Brawn. |
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31 Aug 2015, 19:16 (Ref:3570301) | #112 | |
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If the Honda engine is ahead of the Renault on power then the McLaren chassis is very poor!!!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120561 I wonder is Arai forgetting about the poor energy recovery and storage systems with the Honda power unit. |
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31 Aug 2015, 19:26 (Ref:3570304) | #113 | ||
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yeah i saw that as well.
not sure if those quotes are new/post Spa or pre Spa. |
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31 Aug 2015, 19:32 (Ref:3570305) | #114 | |||
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31 Aug 2015, 20:44 (Ref:3570324) | #115 | |
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Think Arai should stick to making helmets instead of talking like one.
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31 Aug 2015, 20:59 (Ref:3570325) | #116 | ||
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I can't see anything controversial in that article. It might be spot on, it doesn't infer anything derogatory about the chassis, is clear its talking about the ICE only and it says that they need to improve and that there are challenges with the packaging, but they'll be worthwhile.
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31 Aug 2015, 22:23 (Ref:3570335) | #117 | ||
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certainly not controversial nor anything new, but the selected quotes do make mention of the 'size zero' restrictions as being the issue.
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1 Sep 2015, 12:19 (Ref:3570483) | #118 | ||
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I couldnt agree more....the bloke is doing the proverbial "porta-loo" impression....full of it......I can imagine the folk at Woking have just bitten through their tongues at that comment......I'm sure someone senior at McLaren will publicly blow their lid at Honda quite soon.
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1 Sep 2015, 14:10 (Ref:3570506) | #119 | |||
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Agree. Potential recycle of old quotes for a post spa story.
Quote:
Quote:
Richard |
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5 Sep 2015, 14:08 (Ref:3571542) | #120 | |
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If the Honda is now more powerful than the Renault, then I'd expected they'd have out qualified at least some of the Renault powered cars at Monza. Instead, they out qualified none of them.
There's no evidence of this engine being any better than it was before, never mind better than anything else on the grid. |
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5 Sep 2015, 14:52 (Ref:3571547) | #121 | |||
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5 Sep 2015, 15:15 (Ref:3571551) | #122 | |
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But since the ICE on its own is useless, and Honda is responsible for the PU as a whole, including the recovery system, I don't think it matters. Any sort of posturing is pointless as the PU is still clearly the worst on the grid by a significant margin. So claiming the ICE is better than Renault (with no evidence to back that up) is like saying "Our pistons are better than Ferraris. It's a shame our valves are crap". It's a unit as a whole that counts, and Honda have done a spectacularly bad job at it.
We're now visiting a power circuit, and apart from Manor (who barely count), the McLarens are still firmly last and second last. But we just came from Spa, a circuit where the chassis counts for a bit more than Monza, and McLaren performed better. So it doesn't take very long to work out that the weak link is still the Honda engine, and it's still the worst on the grid, no matter what angle you look at it. |
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6 Sep 2015, 08:55 (Ref:3571785) | #123 | |
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A little jem of information from Alonso where he said that at Monzas six corners McLaren is losing 2 or 3 tenths to fastest cars. It does not take a rocket scientist to work out where the rest of the 2.6 seconds deficit is lost.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34164674 |
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6 Sep 2015, 09:25 (Ref:3571791) | #124 | |
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And the time they are losing on the corners is due to then having had to wind he downforce out of it in a feeble attempt to claw back some straight line. Some also say the poor drive ability of the PU results on a lower corner exit speed
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6 Sep 2015, 09:30 (Ref:3571794) | #125 | |
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So when they eventually get a decent amount of power out of the Honda PU they should be well versed in running low downforce setups. The other side is you need more downforce to fully exploit greater horse power.
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