[Magazines] Autosport requests your input on redesign

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Mr Turner Sir
please allow me the opportunity to exagerate at least 3 times on a thorny subject
1 it allows me to vent my spleen
2 it gets others thinking
3 i like pouring scorn on the AS SUBJECT AS IT DOES NEED ADDRESSING!
Ive told the sales guys this for years

OK

[driftwood]

and yes i know John you have told me 1000 times before to stop exagerating

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I don't object to there being motorcycling stuff in Autosport from an ideological perspective (it is automotive sport, and all that).

Sorry,but I have always understood that 'auto' =cars.'moto' =bikes

[Dutton]

I had always taken it to be an abbreviated form of automotive, with moto, as an abbreviation of motorcycle, being a sub-category within automotive (just as motorcar/autocar would be a sub-category of automotive).

Alternately, it can be taken to be an abbreviated form of automobile. There is something of a difference between the two words, but the same situation applies in my opinion. Whilst automobile is, usually, taken to be refering to a motorcar, it is, imo, technically not exclusive. I mean this in the same way that moto, which is an abbreviation of motor, is not exclusive to motorbikes despite it being typically used to mean that. These distinctions are picky and technical, and perhaps are invalid, but it is how it sits in my head at the moment.

I certainly do not dispute that auto is usually taken to mean cars, whereas moto is usually taken to mean motorcycles. This is clearly the case. I guess I have never considered car racing and bike as distinct (it is all motorsport, just with different vehicles).

So, anyway, that is where I am coming from (quite possibly incorrectly interpreting things).

[R59]

I'm sure it's been said before, but this is what I'd like to see.

I agree about the headlines and excessive F1 stuff.

More page space for national motorsport - reports and banter. I was digging through the workshop the other day and found a copy from 1990. The National reports had better reports with more detail of each race - which showed that the reporter was actually watching those races, rather than concentrating on his favourite series and ignoring his/her personal dislikes.
The results went further than 4th place overall, and had places in classes.

Regarding National Motorsport - when you have your awards, I'd like your panel to sit down and wake up - British F3 is not "National Motorsport" like 2CV's, or Hot Hatches, and National Driver of the Year should not come from anything higher than National FFord on spindleys, or Seats (or equivalent) in Saloons. Our upper echilon championships are recognised as world class feeders for F1, and attract drivers from all over the globe. I call that International Motorsport, regardless that the championships run here, and only here! Please recognise the 'REAL' National Motorsport stars, yes, it'll make the selection much more difficult as you won't only have the fields from FF, and FRUK to choose from!

Moving on to international stuff, then yes, some more column inches on sportscars, and much more on NASCAR (it's bigger than F1 in the US, and is growing globally at the expense of F1 imho)

While I find the technical stuff from Gary Anderson very interesting, is there any need allocate soooo many column inches to it after each GP?

I'm sure I'll come up with more ideas as the day goes on.

One thing's for sure - you can't please all of the people all of the time!

[Snapper Baz]

More often than not the reporter covering an event is asked to "lead" on a particular race series/catagory before the event starts so the reporter has to do his or her best in that situation. Often there is the case where that race may have been one of dullest of the day and enthusiasts that were at the meeting will read and say how comes, all the other races were far better than that so that is one reason why reports can sometimes look a little strange.

There are of course other times when its up to the reporter to choose on what to lead on. It all depends on whats been asked beforehand and will obviiously reflect on reading the report days later. And John, I'm not quoating any particular issue of late, just items I have noticed over the last few years! Everybody has there own interests which are not another persons obviously. I'm sure the Ed' Andrew has begun to get and idea from what has been mentioned already from this forum. However, I bet if he was to include a questionair in the mag one week many would come back with "F1 rules" kind of result purely because the majority don't even know this forum exists, have never bothered to go to a clubbie and are possibly purely F1 nuts!

If you went to the GP and quizzed everybody what they would like in Autosport its obvious what the answer would be, and if you did the same at the FF Festival...it wouldn't be F1...it would be more Formula Ford coverage please! Its a difficult situation from an Ed's point of view as at the end of the day he needs whatever he can use to sell that magazine. I'm sure if Hamilton wins a GP and his face is plastered over a cover more copies would sell than a picture of Rod Birley winning his 2000th saloon race!!

[davyboy]

Maybe one suggestion for Andrew would be the layout of the national event reporting. What do we think of a clearer segmentation of the narratives under each race rather than rolling them all one into the other. How about something like this ?

Castle Coombe meeting.
Brief overview of the event... attendance there, weather conditions... anything unusual like special trophy presentation, sponsored event, TV coverage on Motors TV or something.

BARC Formula Renault - Ollie Hancock continues dominant run.
Narrative for that race.
Results for that race.

BOSS championship - Zwart returns victorious in V12 Ferrari.
Narrative for that race.
Results for that race.

... and the inclusion of a lot more pictures from events as well.

[Snapper Baz]

I have to agree with Davyboy in that where some reports may run one large picture, maybe two large pictures...how about using the same page space to run three or four from that meeting. That must make more people happy? Its just my feeling as a photographer it would enhance a report, the photographer wouldn't nesersarily get any more payment but would show a better portrayal of a meeting...and make the photographer feel better

[Mike E]

And what about drag racing?
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it...

[Snapper Baz]

I did! NHRA would be cool!!

[driftwood]

motoring news use dto cover that
i have no deisre to have 1-2 pages of it in AS there must be a drag racers mag somewhere
why not throw in the red bull air race rsults if yr going to add in drag racing

[Snapper Baz]

There are drag racing mags in the US' (I'm sure I saw an NHRA type mag when I was there the other month?) as its huge there and would obviously sell lots of mags, in fact, I think you may well find that NHRA is second in spectator attendance to NASCAR! However, I would be happy with just a quick run-down of an event just to see who did what. One or Two pages would not be conclusive to the magazines needs...sadly, we only hear about the sport when there a fatality which we hope doesn't happen again. On a different note I thought this weeks mag was excellent with tons to read about so well done all on this new issue...especially the little bit about the Brighton Speed Trials!

[Born Racer]

I would prefer more bravery from journalists. As I recall, there were at an estimate five columns (I'm talking about the website here actually; I didn't get the magazine two weeks ago, but I suspect it may apply to any articles that appeared in that) which covered Hamilton's penalty.

None of these condemned what went on in Belgium, and everyone seemed to play it safe with some I must say well-written articles. Nevertheless, I have my suspicions that not all five of those actually didn't have their suspicions that there was foul play/a degree of (conscious or unconscious) Ferrari favouritism at work behind the scenes (after all- you only have to speak to people into Formula 1 to realise that more than 0 in 5 have their suspicions).

The Mark Hughes piece in last week's online article seemed almost sarcastic in saying how there was nothing going on before ending by pointing out how you can see why people are suspicious. Does he really not suspect a thing?

This situation is worrying because it suggests to me that there is some gagging by some FIA power that does not want you to comment on things with your own opinions. This is obviously tremendously saddening. (We all know what happened to Martin Brundle and his newspaper column).

In as little as ten years Autosport as a printed magazine simply will not exist, it will be as outdated as a horse and cart. I have not bought a newspaper for years, why would I when it is conveniently available on my computer screen for free?

I don't think this will prove to be the case. Yes, the internet has its advantages, but after a day of starting at a screen at work, a magazine is something nice to pick up. Hell, I even read big, clumpy newspapers when I get home, because I like a contrast to my internet activity.

Magazines definitely have their place. I no longer by the Autosport magazine every week, but I bought it this week for instance; it's something intangible, but I'll try to explain- I wanted to see last weekend's Grand Prix events in print. Print is like some confirmation of what went on, and I like to see something I've seen so recently laid out in print. There's a historical archive-element to seeing something on paper. Another way of looking at it would be how I find it impressive to see something so recent all laid out in print (naturally, this applies more to newspapers than weekly magazines). Somehow being on the internet almost straight after an event doesn't strike me as so impressive.

So I wanted to read this week's Grand Prix events in a magazine format. Incidentally, the fact Vettel or F1 was on the cover did not swing it for me, and I'm not convinced that an F1 cover is always necessary. Surely, if you wanted to put, let's say, a rally picture on the cover, you might do a dramatic shot of the car/driver combination in question. "Casual" fans might still buy that. In any case, are your core audience not to some extent hardcore fans?

I mean, people who buy a magazine on something, tend to be pretty into it, or have a keen interest to get more into the whole thing, warts and all, not playing-it-safe journalism and a not very in-depth glance at all things F1.

I don't know the economics of it, but if you aim to appeal to a more hardcore fanbase, you should be able to sustain sales regardless of the cover, because you will be appealing to a dedicated motorsport-loving fanbase. With what some others suggest is a greater proliferation of F1-focussed magazines (I hadn't actually noticed that, but I'll take their word for it), an opportunity has opened up to serve our needs (by 'our' I mean hardcore fans) and find a more motorsport-diverse niche.

[F.O.F.]

In general I like the mag as it is.I really didn't like it when they got rid of the crossword though!

[darvi]

I subscribe to Autosport, but I'm not happy. I'd like Autosport to become less Sun and more Times in its coverage, I'd also like more information on National and Club motor racing. You used to have much more technical content which was interesting, now we get a double page after each GP, but that's about it - no real technical content outside of F1.

So, quit the inflamatory headlines and a bit more analysis and techncial stuff. Mind you, a great pic of a disgruntled Alonso in this weeks mag!

[driftwood]

i have not bought AS so no idea what these great improvements are surprised the editor did not send me a free copy
would be good to hear from him here what the circulation was in the eighties 90`s and now
also it would be good to know how many racers buy the mag now as i know many guys have stopped doing so and therefore its not worthwhile me advertising in the mag ( its also very expensive to do so) beter to do website adverts and push own website etc
the mag is not cheap at £3 for a weekly comic

[Balgair]

I subscribed to Autosport from the mid 90s to early 2000s and very much enjoyed it at first, as it gave lots of information about all the forms of motorsport which I enjoyed, regular features on BTCC, GTs etc as well as detailed race reports. Over time however, it turned more and more into F1 sport, just using other series as filler, and eventually I cancelled my subscription on realising I didn't even read more than half of it anyway. Nowadays I buy 4-5 issues a year, usually when something interesting happened at a race I was at.

How to improve it: simply as others have said, more non-F1 - there is now no dedicated magazine for those of us who like all forms of motorsport. Autosport should be that magazine, but it is no longer that, because F1 takes up so much space that everything else only gets a bare minimum. If people want only F1, they'll buy F1 dedicated magazines; those of us who buy Autosport do so to get everything covered.

Less using F1/photos as filler - if an article isn't large enough to fill 2 pages without using 1/2 the space with a giant photo that doesn't portray anything massively special, cut it short and use the space for something interesting! Flicking through the last issue I can find, there's a lot of huge photos with just a small strip of text at the edge, it'd be better to use several smaller photos to break the text up but give more space for indepth reporting. And if there's not much interesting going on in F1, cut the 2-3 pages of F1-related waffle that doesn't say anything new, and put some other series in that space.

More space for national/club coverage - the Scottish club racing is my major interest, yet the reports are so cramped that they never tell me anything I couldn't figure out from the results and maybe looking on a website or two. Sometimes I even wonder if the reporter was actually at the race, there's so little room for extra details that they could just as easily have been written by somebody looking at the results alone.

NASCAR - it's huge in America, and with the Sky coverage more people over here will be getting to know it. Surely it could merit a slightly larger presence? Now BTCC is returning to the best racing it's had in a decade or so I wouldn't mind seeing more coverage of that too, although I realise there's only finite space for everything... however the Knockhill BTCC round issue got only 1-2 very tiny items in the news section; I'm sure it can't have been that uninteresting a meeting!

[F360]

I've bought the magazine religiously since the late 70's and the only thing I'd like to see is more indepth race reports and complete results from the various National GT series such as the Italian, Spanish, French etc..
At present we get just one or two lines usually. If we're lucky we get one paragraph and maybe the top 6 finishers...

Other than that, I'm happy with my lot.

[Snapper Baz]

Just as Ghirlracer mentions...NASCAR! Those who knows me knows I love nascar so I'm a bit biased, but...as the scene is so big how about a seperate section titled something like "US Scene" or whatever. There then could be a section just devoted to the US' racing scene which could cover Nascar (and its divisions), IRL, Am' Le Mans, Trans Am and NHRA...team talk, driver interviews...( A mini addition of the US' Racer Magazine!) what a cool section that would be !!

[Tom V]

Cancelled my subscription years ago. The reasons why have already been mentioned many times before in this thread: too much F1, too little coverage of other (better) racing series, like ALMS, LMS...

Is it really necessary to have an F1 car or driver on the cover every week?

As long as all of this doesn't change I don't even see why I should buy the mag again.

[chrisphillips956962]

There is far too much emphasis on F1. In years gone by, the front cover would feature imagery for other forms of motorsport (people do buy Autosport other than F1, you know). A focus on Sportscar racing would be good, but also the golden years of motorsport F3, BTCC, Formula Ford, Bathurst etc the classic races - again not just F1.

There are many legends in the motorsport who it would be great to hear from again (race of their lives, interviews, the rivalries etc), but sadly they woudn't get the column inches due to the paranoia of including as much F1 as possible.

I'm not saying the whole magazine should be seen through rose tinted specs, just an appreciation of other forms of motorsport, today and yesteryear.

[davyboy]

>> World champion
>> Loyal friend
>> Party animal
>> Born racer...

The Real
Kimi Raikkonen
What's on the world champ's mind - by the people who know him best

This is the banner headline on today's Autosport [25.Sep.2008]. The first thought that entered my mind when I saw this was 'Who cares !'... and I imagine I'm not alone in holding that opinion. We are then treated to 6 pages of complete and utter drivel about this subject. What has this got to do with motorsport ? Its like something straight from The Sun.

Andrew, please stop this tabloid rubbish before Autosport drowns in its own gutter.

[driftwood]

well said
im off to read AS from 10 15 20 25 years ago where it had news info and on the front cover rally cars Gp C cars GT BTCC F3 Indycars and sometimes f1 photos
i like reading the adverts there used to be lost of cars for sale parts for sale and even the last page was STOP PRESS lineage adverts all great reading for the competitors
now its a magazine for everyone else except competitors

its about time Andrew the editor came on line and gave us some feed back a sthi sthread is now 9 pages long and plenty has beeen said by us the buyers readers race fans and competitors and of course by me a former advertiser in the magazine

[Dutton]

Urggghhh. I haven't seen that issue yet. That seems rather painful, davyboy.

[AvdB]

Dear all,

First of all thank you for all your comments. It's been very interesting to read your opinions (both good and bad).

The next stage of the process is to formalise our ideas, explore various treatments to different problems. This should enable me to have a pretty good idea as to the direction we will take. Which is where I'd like some more of your input.

I'm planning to hold a readers' forum at Autosport International. I'll formalise the details nearer the date, but the idea is for you to give your opinions to me directly on the new concepts.

After all the consulation is finished, the new-look Autosport should hit the shelves in March (the exact date is to be determined).

While I greatly appreciate all your feedback, there is one issue I really must respond to.

Today's cover of The Sun

PREACHER OF HATE'S DAUGHTER IS POLE DANCER

The cover of the latest Mojo

WHO KILLED...

THE CLASH

The Rucks! The Drugs! The Shocking Truth!

How anyone can compare

THE REAL KIMI RAIKKONEN (which incidently is a play on the 2001 documentary: The real James Hunt) to that Sun headline, is, quite frankly, beyond belief.

Tabloid refers to paper size - the Times and the Independent are both tabloids. Autosport's journalistic standards have far more in common with these than the Star or the Sun.

Once again, thanks for your imput and I look forward to meeting many of you in person at ASI.

Best,

Andrew van de Burgt