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2 Oct 2008, 11:54 (Ref:2302723) | #101 | ||
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-there is a mysterious silhuette on the official website -Toyota Motorsports Festival is 23rd Nov Correct conclusion: some kind of car is going to be revealed 23rd Nov. Wrong conclusion: Dome + Toyota = new LMP You can bet I wish too it would be really LMP, but I want to avoid making assumptions based on purely speculation... This Toyota thing has been also discussed in this thread, also link to the Toyota website is mentioned here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...107659&page=18 -edit- Last edited by deggis; 2 Oct 2008 at 12:02. |
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2 Oct 2008, 12:26 (Ref:2302741) | #102 | ||
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Toyota has announced its interest to partecipate in Le Mans, but it's not clear if their future program will be in partnership with Dome or Courage (if I'm not wrong). This story is "on air" sine many months.
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Le Mans, 23/06/2013, 15:00, Allan we miss you! Porsche 1°-2° in GTE-Pro class with 991 GT3 RSR Porsche 1st. place in GTE-Am class with 997 GT3 RSR |
2 Oct 2008, 12:33 (Ref:2302744) | #103 | ||
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Remember the Lexus IS-F Racing Concept. That does not mean Lexus is actually racing in DTM... |
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2 Oct 2008, 13:28 (Ref:2302789) | #104 | ||
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Well, the document showed by Autosprint is official, and it's clear FIA is in alert for P1 performances. So, they have intention to slow down them, for safety reasons. This could play a good point for F1, worried for Le Mans success.
If I find it, I'll send it to you! In the next years, in LMP1 we'll have a great involvement of car manifacturers: together with Audi and Peugeot, there will be Acura, Toyota, Porsche, Aston Martin. I've heard something about BMW, but nothing's for sure. This is happening because Le Mans is more interesting for car manifacturers that Formula 1. More interesting development perspectives. I hope to see a great show, whit all this brand fighting one each other. The italian article you have read on the link I've send you, it's not the one that shows FIA involvement in slowing down P1. This article has been published on Autosprint. And it's the one I will send you, as soon as possible, if I will find it. LMP1 technological fall-out on production car is clear, today! In Formula 1 you've got engines with indirect fuel injection! Like the cars 20 years old! In P1 direct fuel injection is a reality since several years! With P1 engines, you can improve all kind of engines, from V6 to V12, not only V8. In F1 engines are all the same: bore x stroke, distribution, injection system, weight, material, etc... To use the same Forghieri's word, F1 today is just like the Formula 3, but infinitively more expensive! Where can you find innovations: where you can experiment new solutions or where you are forced to follow a so restrictive rule? Concluding, I think endurance is the pinnacle of motorsport because: - More innovation, less restrictive rules - More technical variety - Level and experience of competitors - Direct technological fall-out on production cars - Great competitive - Endurance formula is more near to everyday cars I don't think you can measure the technological interest of motorsport only basing your suppositions on the success of public. It's not the right way. Formula 1 is more "TV friend" because races are shorter (1h30m). This captures public and adrvertising. That's why great manifacturers are so interested in F1! It's showed in all the world, on the contrary of endurance races. People would not be happy (if not a real passionate) to see a 6 hours race, or 2h45 long race. Formula 1 format is perfect for television. That's the explanation of all. And they must thank to mr. Eccleston for his way to manage F1. |
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Le Mans, 23/06/2013, 15:00, Allan we miss you! Porsche 1°-2° in GTE-Pro class with 991 GT3 RSR Porsche 1st. place in GTE-Am class with 997 GT3 RSR |
2 Oct 2008, 15:03 (Ref:2302830) | #105 | |||
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What would they gain by scuffling around in midfield in F1? Who actually cares what engines the 'privateer' teams run? Maybe VAG in general needs to lift its sporting profile, but Audi is very well-positioned where it is. I think if VAG wanted to come into F1 it'd need to buy a team with the potential to become competitive with McLaren and Ferrari within 1-2 years (and brand it as VW) - and I don't see anyone selling. Yet. Frank and Patrick aren't getting any younger, though. |
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2 Oct 2008, 16:15 (Ref:2302875) | #106 |
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The Le Mans vs. F1 has come up again. I am not a motorsports technology expert but I think it's fair to say that F1 cars are the most technologically advanced cars out there - the budgets, the aero, the engines, the gearboxes, etc etc. Also they are the lightest and fastest and most expensive.
As for what is the pinnacle of motorsport, that is highly subjective. There are many different kinds of motorsport and why would one be better than the other and it is hard to compare such vastly different sports. I mean there's endurance, drag, open wheel, oval, stock car, road course, long distance, rally and so on. What is the pinnacle? I suppose you can make a choice and if I had to I would chose F1 due to the money and tech and quality of drivers and teams but I'd rather not single out one and evaluate the "best" in each category. I haven't read all this thread, but is there actually any solid reports of Porsche entering LMP1 or is this all based on a shaky initial report? |
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2 Oct 2008, 16:34 (Ref:2302889) | #107 | ||
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2 Oct 2008, 17:14 (Ref:2302909) | #108 | |||
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2 Oct 2008, 17:22 (Ref:2302912) | #109 | |
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Citroen Sport are arguably one of the top 5 manufacturer teams at the moment, they compete in the WRC!
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2 Oct 2008, 17:27 (Ref:2302917) | #110 | |||
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3 Oct 2008, 05:56 (Ref:2303209) | #111 | |
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The hybrid systems for race cars so far have yielded little gain in fuel economyu. The Peugeot only claims 3% better fuel economy.
Also for comparison, F1 cars use up about 75 liters per 100 km, while the Audi R10 only uses less than 45. |
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5 Oct 2008, 19:13 (Ref:2304876) | #112 | |
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Interestingly in this months Racecar Engineering, there's an article that says future F1 cars will have a number of spec parts, i.e. gearboxes, underfloor etc., with other areas that are totally free.
Tony Purnell is a technical consultant to F1 and says the formula cannot afford to have as open regs as Le Mans, the costs will be too high. So in a few years time, a Le Mans car that exploits the regulations to the max will be to a higher technical level, as a whole, than an F1 car. Albeit F1 manufactuers will likely spend far greater sums on the few areas that are free to develop. |
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5 Oct 2008, 22:04 (Ref:2305012) | #113 | ||
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LMPs are clearly more technological. F1 is like a single seater trophy. But a lot more expensive!
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Le Mans, 23/06/2013, 15:00, Allan we miss you! Porsche 1°-2° in GTE-Pro class with 991 GT3 RSR Porsche 1st. place in GTE-Am class with 997 GT3 RSR |
7 Oct 2008, 19:51 (Ref:2306374) | #114 | ||||||||
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Last edited by deggis; 7 Oct 2008 at 19:55. |
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7 Oct 2008, 19:55 (Ref:2306377) | #115 | |||
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7 Oct 2008, 20:37 (Ref:2306408) | #116 | |
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It's getting old fellas, let's stitch it up or move it to a new thread..
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7 Oct 2008, 20:51 (Ref:2306414) | #117 | ||
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Well with all the snippets of Penske not being in a Porsche next year I would think that a Porsche P-1 is not going to immediately show up. Unless of course they are planning on running it in the LMS only to start with, which I doubt, especially with that causing the loss of such a quality team in Penske.
L.P. |
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7 Oct 2008, 20:56 (Ref:2306418) | #118 | ||
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Isn't Penske also a technical partner for Porsche?
Didn't Penske recently purchase a floundering large Porsche franchise in Germany. How many US Porsche Franchise stores does Penske own? ok for a matter of fact how many Toyota franchises does Penske Own? This says quite a bit in this picture: http://www.penskeracing.com/ Mr Penske is a good business man. Look at his long time sponsors/ partners Penske Racing Longtime Sponsors * 27 Years Snap-on Tools * 25 Years PPG * 22 Years Hugo Boss * 19 Years Philip Morris USA * 18 Years Miller Brewing Co. * 18 Years Mobil 1 * 18 Years Mazak * 15 Years Bosch * 11 Years Lennox * 9 Years Alltel Last edited by AU N EGL; 7 Oct 2008 at 20:59. |
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7 Oct 2008, 21:23 (Ref:2306431) | #119 | |||||||||
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You could make Eccleston to manage the donkey races, and you could obtain wonderful results! Donkey races would be more interesting and loved than Formula 1! Last edited by Dario911; 7 Oct 2008 at 21:26. |
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Le Mans, 23/06/2013, 15:00, Allan we miss you! Porsche 1°-2° in GTE-Pro class with 991 GT3 RSR Porsche 1st. place in GTE-Am class with 997 GT3 RSR |
8 Oct 2008, 21:39 (Ref:2307109) | #120 | ||
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Le Mans budgets are limited by the amount of publicity a win can generate, in F1 a handful of manufacturer's could justify much bigger budgets if it guaranteed race wins, but the rest of the field would bail. |
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8 Oct 2008, 22:00 (Ref:2307126) | #121 | |
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Back to Porsche, is anyone else suprised Porsche can gain at least 30bhp with the new direct injection engine with a relatively small P2 3.4l V8?
You would assume the old motor was already one of the best in the field. If the smaller P2 restrictors they've had to run this last year or two gave approximately 535bhp, the jump to 565bhp, possibly 575bhp, is huge. |
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9 Oct 2008, 00:32 (Ref:2307207) | #122 | ||
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They have had similar gains in their 911 DFI engined road cars (+/-5%)
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13 Dec 2008, 02:19 (Ref:2353981) | #123 | |||
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Hmmm...
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Last edited by deggis; 13 Dec 2008 at 02:22. |
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13 Dec 2008, 02:35 (Ref:2353988) | #124 | ||
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OOoooohhhhh ..... Keep feeding Wiedeking more drink I say !!!
Certainly sounds like something is in the water ..... or drink . |
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13 Dec 2008, 05:48 (Ref:2354031) | #125 | ||
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