New car revealed.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

According to some of my sources here in Indy, Wheldon was slowly pushing the car up in speed and that there is a whole lot left to be seen...

BTW.. Those sources are not IndyCar or IMS sources...they are race team contacts who were there observing the proceedings.

It is only the second test for it thus far and they don't want to stress the equipment at such an early stage...

What do your team contacts think of the car? Are their reactions similair to the fans or is it true like IndyCar are trying to portrait it, that everyone is happy with the way the series is moving?

(I understand if it's not okay for you to write something like that on a public forum, but it would certainly be interesting.)

[gttouring]

however given what we have seen- there are better chassis out there already.
dozens already look better, sound better, and are not afraid to go all out in a test because they are worried to break it.
If this is the offering the Indy car board would be better served to have used a known car and adapt safety items to it, this thing is very poorly executed...or better it should be executed

[Jonerz]

It doesn't sound like he is pushing. It sounds like he is using a lot of the rev range in the slower bits, that last link that jondownunder provided seems to get it coming by on the straights, and it sounds okay, but it doesn't come across as being very loud. Will be interested when the project reaches a point that IndyCar is willing to give us video. I imagine, as has been theorized here, Wheldon isn't running mock-qualifying attempts just yet. Just trying to get miles, and miles, and miles under the car to learn where it wants to be in terms of setup and to see what piece breaks first.

From what I can tell the car is so otherworldly compared to the current car that they are blind. Of course, on the setup side you'd expect Dallara's simulation capabilities would have given them a pretty good idea how the car responds to different setup changes. Still, breaking in the car and trying to learn how it works and what is likely to break, which parts don't work in certain circumstances and all that will take a while and if the Honda engine has been giving up the ghost a lot in testing, they surely haven't got very far in breaking the car in.

Chris

[Purist]

There's an article up of the Series website saying they got in over 400 miles on the F1 road course at Indy during the test day. You'd have a hard time doing that if you lost an engine anywhere in there. So, that seems like a good sign.
http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-...gest-test-yet/

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by gttouring

we laugh but it is our Indy they are making a mockery of.

And have been since 1994.

Chris

[mountainstar]

I was saying all the way back to last year Lotus was likely vaporware and everyone was like no no no.

Well, where are they, no one knows:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...gine-supply/P1

Rodeo Randy has to fly over to England to do a search.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

And have been since 1994.

Chris

1994 was an excellent year.

[jondownunder]

Not so much behind the scenes where TG was cooking up his vision...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

Not so much behind the scenes where TG was cooking up his vision...

Vision is one way of describing it, .

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I was saying all the way back to last year Lotus was likely vaporware and everyone was like no no no.

Well, where are they, no one knows:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...gine-supply/P1

Rodeo Randy has to fly over to England to do a search.

The fact that the situation is bad enough for the above linked article to be released to the public, is worrying indeed. Bad publicity for Group Lotus. Not replying to their potential customers is rather USF1-esque.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

The fact that the situation is bad enough for the above linked article to be released to the public, is worrying indeed. Bad publicity for Group Lotus. Not replying to their potential customers is rather USF1-esque.

With Danny Bahar as CEO of Group Lotus nothing surprises me after the nonsense surrounding who owns the Lotus name in F1.

[mac]

I think it looks ok, you know... I think the rear fenders and the ginormous wings ruin what is a decent-ish shape...

[christcc2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Vision is one way of describing it, .

His vision of open-wheeled Nascar that is.

When the first IRL non-turbo carswith those inferior chassis' raced, all I could think was Nascar....

It's 2011 and we're still watching Nascar - open-wheeled yes...but the Indy Car series is just another form of Nascar at the moment.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by christcc2

His vision of open-wheeled Nascar that is.

When the first IRL non-turbo carswith those inferior chassis' raced, all I could think was Nascar....

It's 2011 and we're still watching Nascar - open-wheeled yes...but the Indy Car series is just another form of Nascar at the moment.

NASCAR has a little more direction than IndyCar. IndyCar is rudderless. If it ever wants to get back on track, it needs to go back to the early 90s. That was an extremely good allround formula for cars, teams, drivers and tracks.

[gttouring]

I think BJ is right. Not that they need to go back. But certainly look at why that worked and take the best of it. A few chassis and a few engines... really the 2.65 liter turbo v8 was spectacular and the cosworth XFE showed how great it was althhough it wasn't at full potency then but 1500 race miles between rebuilds and push to pass for real with turbo. Boosting rather than simple revs now...and the sound.
I saw champcars do wheelies during pace laps...well lifting the fronts off the tarmac.
Really? Just wow.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gttouring

I think BJ is right. Not that they need to go back. But certainly look at why that worked and take the best of it. A few chassis and a few engines... really the 2.65 liter turbo v8 was spectacular and the cosworth XFE showed how great it was althhough it wasn't at full potency then but 1500 race miles between rebuilds and push to pass for real with turbo. Boosting rather than simple revs now...and the sound.
I saw champcars do wheelies during pace laps...well lifting the fronts off the tarmac.
Really? Just wow.

I should have clarified what I said, they need to look at what made IndyCar in the early 90s so successful. As for the new car by all means start with the Dallara but one thing they should do is open up the competition for multiple chassis. Whether other manufacturers wish to join in that's up to them but let's not stifle the competition.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I should have clarified what I said, they need to look at what made IndyCar in the early 90s so successful. As for the new car by all means start with the Dallara but one thing they should do is open up the competition for multiple chassis. Whether other manufacturers wish to join in that's up to them but let's not stifle the competition.

They'll never get that and the reason they will not is because that is the very reason why the irl was founded. tony george did not consider CART to be a success in his backwards flat lander peanut brain.

So to admit CART of 1994 was awesome and perfect is to completely rubbish the tragic and horrific history of the irl and they are just never going to do that.

This new car is a perfect of example of their mental midget and backwards thinking and another demonstration of total incompetence with a 4 year program to develop a car that is not only dog ugly, but can't even run right or do basic things like fit in a transporter.

[Paradise City]

I could never understand [or be convinced] why they can't have multichasis, multiengines while enforcing an agricultural, cheap-as-chips, lo-tech level of technology.

[gttouring]

T

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I could never understand [or be convinced] why they can't have multichasis, multiengines while enforcing an agricultural, cheap-as-chips, lo-tech level of technology.

Well they could adopt ALMS rules and engine guide lines..now every manufacturer can enter with the least investment. Use a dallara tub if they must but anyone can build what they want.
so many options and fast safe relatively economical and alternative fuels IndyCar honchos always make such wrong shortsighted turns.
It. Has become a single make spec series with amateur officiating stupid cars taking a back seat in terms of quality to World series renault, and GP2.
I would spit but it would make my screen messy.

[nickyf1]

With the ALMS, there is actually a market for the cars beyond the USA.

I saw a Panoz DP-01 in a promo video for an Indycar team the other day. It had been painted up in the same livery as the Dallara that actually races, and it was being used as a show car.

Seriously. There is a car out there. Its been tested, raced, its much faster, much safer, its more spectacular, quite a few of them already exist, and the tooling is there to build new ones. Why even develop a new car? Why couldn't they revive the DP-01, modify it for use on Ovals and Road Courses (Panoz did a lot of R&D on an IRL version of the DP-01 too), fit the V6 Turbo in it?

That makes too much sense doesn't it?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

With the ALMS, there is actually a market for the cars beyond the USA.

I saw a Panoz DP-01 in a promo video for an Indycar team the other day. It had been painted up in the same livery as the Dallara that actually races, and it was being used as a show car.

Seriously. There is a car out there. Its been tested, raced, its much faster, much safer, its more spectacular, quite a few of them already exist, and the tooling is there to build new ones. Why even develop a new car? Why couldn't they revive the DP-01, modify it for use on Ovals and Road Courses (Panoz did a lot of R&D on an IRL version of the DP-01 too), fit the V6 Turbo in it?

That makes too much sense doesn't it?

If you want to go down the spec car road the DP-01 would be a far better alternative than the new Dallara creation. However if you're ever going to get IndyCar back to anything resembling the racing pre the split, the sport has to be attractive enough for multiple chassis manufacturers to want to join in, as well as multiple engine manufacturers.

[gttouring]

Still they could do just that and further more use the dallara tub if they want to keep it and take off the mandatory nose. And let any builder use it and just make it simple rule set vripes the idiots involved just steam me

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gttouring

Still they could do just that and further more use the dallara tub if they want to keep it and take off the mandatory nose. And let any builder use it and just make it simple rule set vripes the idiots involved just steam me

I thought that was the idea behind the Dallara building the tub and other manufacturers then coming in to build the aero kits? Now that seems not to be the case regarding next season, with the aero kits bein put on hold.

It was Lola who came up with the idea of a standard tub and different aero packages but their idea went one further in that the tub could alo be used in Indy Lights, so if a team progressed to IndyCar they could use the same tub, rather than having to buy a new one.

[nickyf1]

I'd much rather have a spec DP01 championship than the new IR12. I just feel that the IR12 will be not quick enough. It may be slightly quicker than the current IR07 (if thats what they car calling it... more like the IR03 to me) but it just won't be as fast as the DP01 was.

Looking at the pictures, it just looks like it will be equally as clumsy through the corners as the current car. The DP01 was short, wide, had big tyres, and plenty of power, it was a proper car designed to be one of the fastest things outside of F1. It was functional, it had wings that were designed not for looks, but for function. Its design brought Champcar back up to date with the motorsport engineering trends that had been developed since the previous Lola.

The new car however, to me, just seems to be more ''demographic'' driven than anything. There is no real ambition with the car itself. And when I think of all of those DP01's sitting silent, it just hurts my head to think that Indycar would not even consider reviving that car as a base for the new car, or even consider making a car that was as fast as the DP01.

If Indycar wants to be taken seriously, it has to start with a serious car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

I'd much rather have a spec DP01 championship than the new IR12. I just feel that the IR12 will be not quick enough. It may be slightly quicker than the current IR07 (if thats what they car calling it... more like the IR03 to me) but it just won't be as fast as the DP01 was.

Looking at the pictures, it just looks like it will be equally as clumsy through the corners as the current car. The DP01 was short, wide, had big tyres, and plenty of power, it was a proper car designed to be one of the fastest things outside of F1. It was functional, it had wings that were designed not for looks, but for function. Its design brought Champcar back up to date with the motorsport engineering trends that had been developed since the previous Lola.

The new car however, to me, just seems to be more ''demographic'' driven than anything. There is no real ambition with the car itself. And when I think of all of those DP01's sitting silent, it just hurts my head to think that Indycar would not even consider reviving that car as a base for the new car, or even consider making a car that was as fast as the DP01.

If Indycar wants to be taken seriously, it has to start with a serious car.

I agree with alot of what you say and one way for other chassis manufacturers to come on board would be to start with a serious chassis. It was March's success in the early to mid 80s that got Lola involved and it was Reynard's desire to beat Lola as a single seat maufacturer that got them involved, Success breads success, as they say.