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21 Jan 2021, 00:12 (Ref:4030365) | #101 | |
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Arturio Merzario, now there’s a name from the past. Glad to see he’s still keeping in touch with F1
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
21 Jan 2021, 00:59 (Ref:4030368) | #102 | |||
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Haven't most of the greats vetoed teammates at least once though? Russell's performance was great, but let's not forget it was on what was essentially an oval track. It's being a bit overrated. |
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21 Jan 2021, 08:27 (Ref:4030388) | #103 | |
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Fair point on it being more of an oval, but I don't think it was overrated. It did just convince what a lot of us were thinking. That George is the real deal
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
21 Jan 2021, 10:02 (Ref:4030412) | #104 | ||
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An interesting response from what is certainly more than a sleeper issue. As Richard said, LH being unsigned, a seven times World Champion, going long on negotiations and being out of contract is really very strange.
Given that the reported out of pocket for Mercedes Benz is around 20 Million a year after sponsors and associated deals, Lewis is a bargain. Look at how they very smartly got on the right side of history this season when Black Lives Matter came to the fore, specifically in their biggest market, the US, wrapped the cars black instead of silver and let Lewis speak his mind. You cannot buy this sort of good will towards the brand. And I am not a Lewis fan - although the older he and I get the more positive I feel towards him. And I have never owned a Mercedes Benz although one of my daughter's have and the gear box was an effing disaster. I stick with Land Rover Jaguar, then I have no high hopes... Sure it could be marketing, but I don't think so. Neither do I think that it is likely that Lewis will be out of a seat this year. As for George, yep good peddler, but when was the last time we saw Lewis retire the car after a unforced error on a safety car lap? |
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21 Jan 2021, 12:23 (Ref:4030429) | #105 | |
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Exactly. People thinking Daimler-Benz would save money bringing George in for Lewis are massively misunderstanding the commercial reality. Which is why Lewis wants the stipend to start with.
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21 Jan 2021, 12:33 (Ref:4030433) | #106 | ||
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I think that's right, but it ignores the overall issue of current perception, which is "how can a company justify umpteen millions for racing, when it is making thousands redundant and (possibly) closing factories?"
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21 Jan 2021, 13:11 (Ref:4030439) | #107 | |
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Because if they lost Lewis it would actually be a financial negative, even if the results on the track remained the same (which is far from certain). Mercedes would probably pay him a sizable chunk of his salary even if wasn't racing anymore just to use his image.
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21 Jan 2021, 13:19 (Ref:4030440) | #108 | ||
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Believe me, shareholders generally don't ignore the bottom line in favour of more esoteric arrangements. I've even seen them try to tear up contracts because they don't see the benefits.
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21 Jan 2021, 14:03 (Ref:4030447) | #109 | |
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Lewis has never liked the PR, meet and greet stuff. Jenson wrote in his autobiography that Lewis let him do it all at McLaren.
George Russell is a clean cut, articulate and personable young man highly suited to the market that Mercedes aim for. Lewis has been great and no doubt helped by his car but it's time to go away and spend his money (does he need any more?) and get a life. I have huge respect for Nico for walking away after his title win and doing the family thing he has missed out on for 20 years. |
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21 Jan 2021, 18:09 (Ref:4030491) | #110 | |
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Nothing esoteric about the fact that Hamilton directly brings in more money to Mercedes & partners than he is paid. Shareholders understand more money over less well enough.
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21 Jan 2021, 18:45 (Ref:4030506) | #111 | ||
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Does he? When you add the cost of the team into the mix, I'd suggest his salary stands out as a major sum. Not suggesting you are wrong but there are bigger things than F1 in the world.
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21 Jan 2021, 22:01 (Ref:4030535) | #112 | |
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First, I am not disputing that Lewis provides both value to the team as a pure driver and secondarily as a marketing tool.
Marketing and economics is not my forte, but at some level Mercedes will have to decide what value the entire F1 sponsorship has. I expect at the macro level they have done that. But it is likely they don't have micro level understanding. So for example, of the total value, how much is attributed to Lewis vs. another driver who might produce similar results (from a championship perspective). Somewhere that value gets a dollar figure attached. And if that value is subjective and if those involved in the negotiations are very much out of synch with each other, then it creates problems with coming to terms. So, for example, someone somewhere in this entire thing may be saying... "George can provide 80% of the value for 20% of the cost". Its a proposition of a lesser solution, but the cost savings might be attractive. Of which others may not agree. Who is to say who is right? Richard |
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21 Jan 2021, 22:20 (Ref:4030537) | #113 | ||
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I think the argument is more about the term, where the long-term future of the team is unclear, meaning they don’t want to commit to a long-term big commitment. I note someone above respected Rosberg for quitting. I very much doubt Merc appreciated their new world champ retiring at zero notice. |
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21 Jan 2021, 23:15 (Ref:4030541) | #114 | ||
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21 Jan 2021, 23:20 (Ref:4030542) | #115 | ||
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Almost like he’s training for something?
Perhaps there is more to it. He’s having to show Daimler/Ineos/whoever that he is fit and is super motivated. This is only because of George Russell. There is no way Lewis would be up that mountain if George Russell hadn’t driven so well. |
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22 Jan 2021, 06:10 (Ref:4030559) | #116 | ||
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Taking away the Russell sarcasm, I don't doubt he is keeping himself fit, I am also sure he will sign some form of contract for this year. But, as a manufacturer I think Richard's point about cost/benefit has legs.
Comparing Mercedes now with the Senna era of Mclaren in terms of cost/benefit, is perhaps a stretch since at that time McLaren were a racing team, not a manufacturer so their entire financial structure was about racing. A totally different business case. |
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22 Jan 2021, 09:47 (Ref:4030581) | #117 | |
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While LH gets a lot pf publicity he controversial views many not go down well in the board rooms of Daimler or INEOS. Drawing attention to slave labour is a touching subject in Germany.
While he has millions of Twitter fans, how many of those are likely to buy a Mercedes? I would suggest that in the long run George Russell is far more marketable to a Mercedes buying audience. He is an intelligent guy and will say the right things in the right way. His clean cut image will got down well in a board room. |
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22 Jan 2021, 10:04 (Ref:4030586) | #118 | ||
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Frankly I have never considered the merits of a road car based on Formula One. Nowadays the gap is even wider IMO and whether Russell or anyone else drives makes no difference to brand support. As to the other point, some suspect that by highlighting these things, Lewis has shown Mercedes to be in tune with the market.
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22 Jan 2021, 10:43 (Ref:4030591) | #119 | ||
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Perhaps they could charge Hamilton to drive in order to beat Schu's record and cement his legacy. |
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22 Jan 2021, 12:07 (Ref:4030613) | #120 | ||
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This thread has developed in a very interesting and I dare say accurate way...
Methinks it could be as simple as the old cliche 'don't bite the hand that feeds you'! Have we yet considered how much influence Ineos has now Jim Ratcliffe is a 3rd owner? Part of the reason Merc sold a 3rd of the team might well be because they were lookimg to save costs and inflated driver salaries? I.E. Merc possibly said a flat no to Lewis's initial denands and Wolf was worried he would lose him. Therefore Merc said they wanted to retain Lewis but Toto would need to negotiate Lewis down or have to find additonal means to meet his remuneration demands. Throughout last season Lewis repeatedly said he was unconfortable thinking about contracts due to the climate. But I doubt he figured that we would still be in that clinate nor that Russell might impact on value etc. |
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22 Jan 2021, 13:01 (Ref:4030634) | #121 | ||
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22 Jan 2021, 13:08 (Ref:4030637) | #122 | ||
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That's only Horner having a bit of fun
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22 Jan 2021, 13:10 (Ref:4030638) | #123 | ||
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Or rather making himself look a bit of a prat......
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280 days...... |
22 Jan 2021, 13:14 (Ref:4030639) | #124 | |
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Not giving Russell credit there is he?
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
22 Jan 2021, 13:15 (Ref:4030641) | #125 | ||
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Agreed. I thought it quite humorous.
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