Super Touring cars List of contacts help!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by HJC

Has anyone already mentioned this ex-Rydell 850?

http://www.thomdejong.nl/Ex-Rydell.htm

For sale for 48500 euro.

Thanks for spotting that one, I hadn't seen it before.

I've been doing a bit of digging and all is not quite what it seems. The car started life as the spare 850 Estate shell and was never raced. At the end of 1994 it was re-bodied as a saloon and used as a test hack to help develop the 1995 saloons, again it never raced. Volvo sold it to Greger Petersson, who sold it to Johnny Haraldsson (Volvo STCC team owner), who sold it to Jan Pahlsson in 97/98, who sold it to Thom de Jong last winter. It's only ever been run once by Pahlsson, who apparantly tried and failed to rebuild the engine.

Despite what looks like 1996 Rydell livery but it's actually a mix of 94 and 95 running gear. Speaking to the current owner he doesn't seem to know too much about the car's history. Somehow I've got to explain to him it's not quite what he thinks.

[JMeissner]

Aha, I thought that front spoiler was 95 spec and not 96.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Thanks for spotting that one, I hadn't seen it before.

I've been doing a bit of digging and all is not quite what it seems. The car started life as the spare 850 Estate shell and was never raced. At the end of 1994 it was re-bodied as a saloon and used as a test hack to help develop the 1995 saloons, again it never raced. Volvo sold it to Greger Petersson, who sold it to Johnny Haraldsson (Volvo STCC team owner), who sold it to Jan Pahlsson in 97/98, who sold it to Thom de Jong last winter. It's only ever been run once by Pahlsson, who apparantly tried and failed to rebuild the engine.

Wow, that is quite a detailed backgrounder and history. I see you're also working to link your website or having a section where people can list their cars for sale. Awesome.

[redshoes]

I want to get a For Sale/Wanted section but it needs to be database driven. It just a question of having time to properly write and test it all.

[kmchow]

It's a shame that the FIA doesn't keep a database like yours? Surely, it's a good thing? Do people think it would help facilitate the building/sale/trading of cars?

[hawkenr]

Originally Posted by kmchow

It's a shame that the FIA doesn't keep a database like yours? Surely, it's a good thing? Do people think it would help facilitate the building/sale/trading of cars?

It would help tremendously as hopefully avoid any one of us who love the Super Tourers from buying a pup!!

Love the register Redshoes great work. Still need to detail that 97 Primera shall of mine for you too. Haven't forgotten.

[HJC]

Originally Posted by kmchow

In the long run, is it cheaper to run cars like the BMW b/c there were more of them produced than any other make?

Revisions cost and spares are expensive for every car, regardless of the make. For example, the differential in the BMW was made by McLaren ( selfadjusting made in carbonfibre). They were the only ones who could repair them

Within 5 years, it'll be almost impossible to race with ST'ers. No more spares left so owners need to find somebody who's able to rebuild pieces = very expensive...

Redshoes, if you need more information or pics of the Accord Supertourers (95-96-97) that raced in BTCC, STW, Procar, JTCC, NTCC, ITCC,... normally I can help you out.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by HJC

Redshoes, if you need more information or pics of the Accord Supertourers (95-96-97) that raced in BTCC, STW, Procar, JTCC, NTCC, ITCC,... normally I can help you out.

You have connections for histories of the JTCC Accords? Those are definitely rare and far between. I wondered what happened to all of them?

[AussieV8]

Lets see a Mazda 3 or a 6 on the grid for '06...

[HJC]

Originally Posted by kmchow

You have connections for histories of the JTCC Accords? Those are definitely rare and far between. I wondered what happened to all of them?

Don't know much about chassisnumbers. At that time I was about 14 years old so... Most of the JTCC Accords raced in NATCC the year after I think. Some Accords from Europe ended in North-America.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by HJC

Don't know much about chassisnumbers. At that time I was about 14 years old so... Most of the JTCC Accords raced in NATCC the year after I think. Some Accords from Europe ended in North-America.

AFAIK, only one JTCC Accord made it to the NATCC. Another made it to the former SEATCZC, now renamed ATCC. The Castrol Mugen Accord was kept by Honda for their museum. How many were built over the years I'm too sure.

[BertMk2]

John Cross was at Lydden with his ex-rallycross Focus (now with a V8 engine!) last weekend, he was chatting about the build of the car and mentioned that he'd got 2 Renault touring cars (I think he said they were 19's) and broken them - the suspension and brakes are now on the Focus! I guess similar fates may have befallen other super tourers? (Nissan supertouring engine appeared in Chris Evans' rallycross Micra for one)

Also I seem to remember Prodrive have kept examples of the supertourers they built and have them on display at Banbury (but they may only be shells rather than complete cars?).

[HJC]

Originally Posted by kmchow

AFAIK, only one JTCC Accord made it to the NATCC. Another made it to the former SEATCZC, now renamed ATCC. The Castrol Mugen Accord was kept by Honda for their museum. How many were built over the years I'm too sure.

Correct, only Cunningham raced with a JTCC version in 1997. I'll try to make list with all the Accords that raced between '95 and '97 (driver, model and team). This could be a base to start to contact teams.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

John Cross was at Lydden with his ex-rallycross Focus (now with a V8 engine!) last weekend, he was chatting about the build of the car and mentioned that he'd got 2 Renault touring cars (I think he said they were 19's) and broken them - the suspension and brakes are now on the Focus!

So perhaps someone does appreciate the Renault 19, contrary to earlier suggestion.

[Craner Curves]

Rouse Corolla anyone? http://racecarsdirect.com/cars/detai...id=25842&cat=6

[supertouring]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Also I seem to remember Prodrive have kept examples of the supertourers they built and have them on display at Banbury (but they may only be shells rather than complete cars?).

I visited Prodrive at Banbury last year when they opened their doors up for charity. Got some great shots of their Accord and Mondeo (see below) and recall seeing some warming up instructions on the Mondeo dash, which suggested that they are complete running cars.

Honda Accord

Prodrive Mondeo

[kmchow]

So I guess Prodrive kept 1 unit of each make on hand for their own collection?

[BertMk2]

So the wall mounted cars would be a shell only I guess whilst the others are the full beasties still in running order?

[hawkenr]

Originally Posted by supertouring

I visited Prodrive at Banbury last year when they opened their doors up for charity. Got some great shots of their Accord and Mondeo (see below) and recall seeing some warming up instructions on the Mondeo dash, which suggested that they are complete running cars.

Honda Accord

Prodrive Mondeo

Having raved against a 2000 Menu car earlier this year owned by Alvin Powell that car doesn't look like a competition machine, more of a show car made up from competition bits. The discs are tiny in comparison to Alvins car , as with my Nissan occupy virtually the whole of the inside of the wheel. Over 15 inches big is the norm for a car of the era and 6 pot AP's versus the 4 pot it looks like it has. Also noticed the analogue dials on the dash, very different to the PI LCD display in later cars.

Just an observation. Oh and Alvin's car goes like hell.

[bradrive]

Originally Posted by HJC

Revisions cost and spares are expensive for every car, regardless of the make. For example, the differential in the BMW was made by McLaren ( selfadjusting made in carbonfibre). They were the only ones who could repair them
Within 5 years, it'll be almost impossible to race with ST'ers. No more spares left so owners need to find somebody who's able to rebuild pieces = very expensive...
Redshoes, if you need more information or pics of the Accord Supertourers (95-96-97) that raced in BTCC, STW, Procar, JTCC, NTCC, ITCC,... normally I can help you out.

I was engineering the Cibiemme run official Bmw E36 from the start in 1993 to the end in 2000. If anyone has serious interest in buying a Bmw I could indicate where part of them are currently. The diff story from above is not true. The 93diff was the same as in the 92m3. In 94 there was the sequential Hollinger gearbox requiring the diff to run the other way round, hence a new case and cwp were produced. In 95 was the same. In 96 a new step-up diff was introduced (still using conventional ramp design as before). In 97 a Xtrac visco unit was introduced to convert the 96 diff to a combined visco/mechanical unit. All the maintenance could be done by the teams. This combined VCP remained until 2000.
There is no car as economic as the E36 to be run by privateers and spares are readily available all over Europe and also still from Bmw.

[HJC]

Originally Posted by bradrive

I was engineering the Cibiemme run official Bmw E36 from the start in 1993 to the end in 2000. If anyone has serious interest in buying a Bmw I could indicate where part of them are currently. The diff story from above is not true. The 93diff was the same as in the 92m3. In 94 there was the sequential Hollinger gearbox requiring the diff to run the other way round, hence a new case and cwp were produced. In 95 was the same. In 96 a new step-up diff was introduced (still using conventional ramp design as before). In 97 a Xtrac visco unit was introduced to convert the 96 diff to a combined visco/mechanical unit. All the maintenance could be done by the teams. This combined VCP remained until 2000.
There is no car as economic as the E36 to be run by privateers and spares are readily available all over Europe and also still from Bmw.

You're probably right, I just heard it from a guy who worked on '94-'95-'96 versions of the BMW E-36. The central driveshaft was made of carbon and had to be placed with a laser, right?

Spares are available but expensive and not all in good condition. I don't want to pay the bill if you get parts at BMW Motorsport

[bradrive]

Originally Posted by HJC

You're probably right, I just heard it from a guy who worked on '94-'95-'96 versions of the BMW E-36. The central driveshaft was made of carbon and had to be placed with a laser, right?

Spares are available but expensive and not all in good condition. I don't want to pay the bill if you get parts at BMW Motorsport

Yes, I designed this carbon propshaft in 1995 and let it to be built by Pankl, Schnitzer run a different carbonshaft in 95 made in Germany. Bmw uniformed it for 1996 and everybody run the Pankl one combined to the step up diff.
When I designed it it was intent to do 20 racing starts and 5000km. But in the end I know people still using it after 200+ starts and 30000+km.
The laser story is simple. you buy a laser marker (the same you need as pointing devices with guns). It will cost you about 60 euros. Then you build a bracket to hold it and to be able to point from the center of the gearbox to the center of the diff (and vice versa). Max misalignent for the Kevlar joints was +/-1deg. You just had to align the diff to the gearbox. If you did not do it then the shaft broke. But all this is really sraightforward and can be done by any mechanic in this world. If you want to convert to a steel propshaft, then just use the 1994 E36 hardware and let the shaft to be shortened by a shop that can also rebalance it.

[JMeissner]

Very interestning stuff to read! Thumbs up bradrive! More please

[bradrive]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

Very interestning stuff to read! Thumbs up bradrive! More please

Just to clear my position: I worked on these E36 for 8years and have some sort of affection for these cars. I would like to see them run for ever. I cannot devote too much of my time to this discussion, but if anybody has specific technical questions about the E36 from 1993 to 2000 (when the last actual chassis was built to 1998 Schnitzer specs), I could probably have an answer for it (may be with a certain delay for responding).
In your country you have a very capable bloke with the name of Dick Johnson operating WestCoastRacing (they just won Fia European Cup with Richard Goransson). He knows all that is to be known about the E36 as well.

[HJC]

Originally Posted by bradrive

Yes, I designed this carbon propshaft in 1995 and let it to be built by Pankl, Schnitzer run a different carbonshaft in 95 made in Germany. Bmw uniformed it for 1996 and everybody run the Pankl one combined to the step up diff.
When I designed it it was intent to do 20 racing starts and 5000km. But in the end I know people still using it after 200+ starts and 30000+km.
The laser story is simple. you buy a laser marker (the same you need as pointing devices with guns). It will cost you about 60 euros. Then you build a bracket to hold it and to be able to point from the center of the gearbox to the center of the diff (and vice versa). Max misalignent for the Kevlar joints was +/-1deg. You just had to align the diff to the gearbox. If you did not do it then the shaft broke. But all this is really sraightforward and can be done by any mechanic in this world. If you want to convert to a steel propshaft, then just use the 1994 E36 hardware and let the shaft to be shortened by a shop that can also rebalance it.

We also used the carbonshaft. From '99 or so we didn't used them any more. I worked on a '96 E36 STW from 2001 till 2004 (but with 3.2 or 3 liter engine, widened bodywork etc.). The car was sold last year to a team in England.