BTCC Brands Hatch: Rounds 22, 23 & 24, 18-19 August

[devon kev]

Why Chilton, I hardly think he was to blame for being shunted off track

[davyboy]

I'm not sure why everyone's upset with the driving standards. In my mind, this weekend was no worse than any other and to be honest is par for the course with touring car racing, period. What was different ? The conditions. Everyone drove as they normally would have done [bumping and boring at each other] but the adhesion limits are nothing like they are in the dry and as a consequence we saw incidents massively amplified - 'the Jackson pile up' and the 'Plato/Chilton' contretemps to name just two. The real nasty shunt from my perspective was Gio's lunge at Mike Jordan. That was in the dry and from the outside it looked like Jordan was deliberately punted off... but Gio's such a nice guy that everyone assumed he'd outbraked himself and what a great save he'd made ! That he got away with such a small penalty is one reason why he's been such a successful touring car driver

Seriously though, do we really want to get into this 'soccer referee' style approach to on track indiscretions, as is creeping into F1 now... or do we want touring cars to be semi-contact like they've always been. Few would argue that the excitement and racing this weekend wasn't some of the best seen in British motorsport in years !

[BootsOntheSide]

Smart drivers adjust their approach in the wet. And I'm not convinced that Gio's move was deliberate, it looked like he was concentrating on holding 2nd place.

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by devon kev

Why Chilton, I hardly think he was to blame for being shunted off track

but he did try coming around the outside of plato,
as proved,can end in tears.

anyway,it made it an intresting few races.

Some moves are only stupid when they dont go to plan.
as MAT said,its a thin line.

[redshoes]

Driving home from Brands I knew the whole 'driving standards' argument was coming.

Leaving aside the Jackson/Race 1 incident for a second, there wasn't much that I would call blatant or deliberate 'dirty' tactics. The possible exception would be Shedden taking out Adam Jones in race 2. Not a big hit, just enough of a tap to unsettle the car under braking.

Gio taking out Jordan certainly wasn't deliberate - he lost it whilst defending his position and would have been up to his axles in the gravel trap had Jordan not been there.

As for Jackson, difficult one to call. I take the point about his start being a little optimistic in the conditions but where do you draw the line. Turkington spun in the wet in the restarted race 1, Mat Allison made an almost identical error after the safety car restart in race 2, but neither were penalised. The difference was Turkington spun and lost a place, Allison destroyed his own car, but neither caused damage to anyone else.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Driving home from Brands I knew the whole 'driving standards' argument was coming.

Lets be honest, these days the BTCC is attacked at any opportunity.

I agree with your post, the result of Jackson's spin seem's to have amplified the whole negative feeling.

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by JimW

I'm not sure that bits of "nice racing" between episodes of stupid, careless and unskilled savagery are what the BTCC should be offering. Sadly Gow and others seem to disagree so we will just continue with the present situation. Where do they think the muppets in Clios get their bad behaviour from?

Jim

Jim,
I'm afraid I have to agree with you as much as I like the BTCC. It is, however,the most popular British racing series as far as the public are concerned, simply because of the sort of thing that happened yesterday, and the publicity focuses on events like those. But, you're right. the Seat drivers, the Clio drivers even the club championships like the Saxmax seem to think contact is the norm. There's contact and there's blatent thuggery, which unfortunately is what a lot of people want to see and what is being advertised these days.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Leaving aside the Jackson/Race 1 incident for a second, there wasn't much that I would call blatant or deliberate 'dirty' tactics. The possible exception would be Shedden taking out Adam Jones in race 2. Not a big hit, just enough of a tap to unsettle the car under braking.

Tapping the car in fronts rear quarter on entry to a corner, so that they run wide and the car behind can get up the inside - is that not blatant or deliberately dirty? Because most of the passes yesterday appeared to happen that way, at least those passes towards the front of the field where the drivers don't have to fund their own repairs. To me that's not good racing, that's a lack of skill - I'm much happier watching the dices at the lower end of the top ten, and outside it, where stock car tactics are less prevalent.

Painted Paddock - the circuit used to follow a looser arc, passing somewhere the gravel trap now is. Obviously there wasn't much run-off, so the corner was made tighter and the old track became the start of the run off. Recently the gravel trap has been extended towards the edge of the track (over the old circuit) - presumably with safety in mind again (although for a while it was debateable, as so many cars ended upside down or on their sides in the trap). The remaining part between the gravel trap and the circuit has been left as tarmac, which you aren't supposed to drive on, and it's painted green for a reason I can't fathom except that JP likes grass. And because it's not gravel, in the dry all the big championships use it and don't get punished, while club racers get hauled over the coals for looking at it in a funny way. What the green paint has to do with the history of Brands Hatch, I have no idea.

[davyboy]

Touring car racing has been a bash-fest for a long time now... Soper took to the grass to remove Cleland in the early 1990s handing the championship to team mate Harvey in probably the greatest professional foul of all time. The two Toyota Carinas made a habit of taking one another out and the rear-quarter-panel-tip-to-pass has been a feature of the series for years. In more recent times Anthony Reid became the self-styled, and rather proud, Dick Dastardly.

You probably need to go back to the early to mid-1980s when touring cars were exactly that - Rover Vitesse and BMW 635CSi - and driven by pipe-smoking gentlemen and not spikey-haired-hooligans But that was when the series didn't make TV and racing was more important than entertainment.

[Sodemo]

Rickard Rydell became a driver to despise for me in 1998 when he started to use barging tactics, yet he seemed to get away with it all the time.

At Brands Hatch that year, Reid gave Rydell a small nudge up at Druids for which I believe he got reprimanded for, though I can't remember the exact punishment

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Lets be honest, these days the BTCC is attacked at any opportunity.

I agree with your post, the result of Jackson's spin seem's to have amplified the whole negative feeling.

At last a sensible voice instead of all the sanctimonious rubbish that is spouted ever more often on here. As the old saying that is used on here quite alot is if you don't like it then switch off! It seems to me that certain characters on the forum seem to hold themselves as the self styled "Judge and Jury" of anything that ever happens in the BTCC.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by Paddockman

At last a sensible voice instead of all the sanctimonious rubbish that is spouted ever more often on here. As the old saying that is used on here quite alot is if you don't like it then switch off! It seems to me that certain characters on the forum seem to hold themselves as the self styled "Judge and Jury" of anything that ever happens in the BTCC.

Just picture them all as 60 years old, rocking in a chair crying "I don't believe it" at the TV screen, and move on

I think TL & redshoes summed it up nicely - one unfortunate crash causing a multicar pile up in wet conditions set the precedant for 'bad racing' calls all day. There were few dastardly moves, certainly nothing unexpected from tin-tops. Don't see what the fuss is about.

Too many race lovers who enjoy those things where they follow each other round in here - what are you doing here?, the F1 and F3 forum's are elsewhere dears

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Paddockman

At last a sensible voice instead of all the sanctimonious rubbish that is spouted ever more often on here. As the old saying that is used on here quite alot is if you don't like it then switch off! It seems to me that certain characters on the forum seem to hold themselves as the self styled "Judge and Jury" of anything that ever happens in the BTCC.

And then show up in the BTCC topics.

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by Paddockman

self styled "Judge and Jury" of anything that ever happens in the BTCC.

Phhheeeewwww

Good job there aint an off side rule in motorsport

[Rod Birley]

Did anyone see the big advertising boards outside the (Brands Hatch) circuit showing that Rallycross is at Lydden on August bank holiday. Bit cheeky, but clever move by someone.

[Rod Birley]

Apparently Simon Blankley has sold his car.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

Apparently Simon Blankley has sold his car.

We'd guessed as much and have since had it confirmed. Word is that he wasn't overly happy in the series and when someone made him the right offer he jumped at it.

He's also sold his ex-David Leslie Accord.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Just picture them all as 60 years old, rocking in a chair crying "I don't believe it" at the TV screen, and move on

I think TL & redshoes summed it up nicely - one unfortunate crash causing a multicar pile up in wet conditions set the precedant for 'bad racing' calls all day. There were few dastardly moves, certainly nothing unexpected from tin-tops. Don't see what the fuss is about.

Too many race lovers who enjoy those things where they follow each other round in here - what are you doing here?, the F1 and F3 forum's are elsewhere dears

Or a lot younger, and knowing some driving skill when they see it.

I hadn't seen the race 1 lap 1 incident before race 2 (as my world doesn't stop for BTCC, I catch what I can and saw race 1 later on the main ITV coverage), and had already formed the opinion that it was a bad day before knowing what had happened there.

Yes, I do enjoy a good race, and don't watch F1 for that reason. As said before, I'd rather see the clean action at the back of the grid (or watch 80s BTCC instead) - tip-to-pass might be the norm, with precedent, but it doesn't make it right.

It's interesting that this forum has "judge and jury" on the racing, and then also "judge and jury" on those who think it's a poor show!

Side note - anyone know why Simon Blanckley wasn't happy?

[avro]

Simon has sold both his ex BTCC Hondas and both will be running in LMA Euro Saloons next year, in fact one already is and was at Oulton Park on Saturday.

[Rod Birley]

The TV did focus on the Lexus passing the Alfa in a clean move, which even got the crowd cheering.

[MSportUK]

A few pics from Brands Hatch at...
http://www.msportuk.com/photo/2007/index3.php

Statement from Simon Blanckley about leaving BTCC...
http://www.msportuk.com/news/2007/q3...c_sibsport.php

Heading to sportscars for next year.

[jonbryant]

If we're doing pics:

www.snappyracers.com/Brands180807 <-- Saturday
www.snappyracers.com/album/Brands190807 <-- Sunday

[Matt]

I still wanna see a shot of the rear of Mat Jackson's car from races two or three, lol. Probably looks a bit like Steve Sopers at Silverstone, in '92.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Just picture them all as 60 years old, rocking in a chair crying "I don't believe it" at the TV screen, and move on

I think TL & redshoes summed it up nicely - one unfortunate crash causing a multicar pile up in wet conditions set the precedant for 'bad racing' calls all day. There were few dastardly moves, certainly nothing unexpected from tin-tops. Don't see what the fuss is about.

Too many race lovers who enjoy those things where they follow each other round in here - what are you doing here?, the F1 and F3 forum's are elsewhere dears

How dare you! I have not been accused of following F1 for about 20 years.

But returning to the BTCC, my comments had absolutely nothing to do with the Race 1, lap 1 pile up.

Regards

Jim

[jonbryant]

Originally Posted by Matt

I still wanna see a shot of the rear of Mat Jackson's car from races two or three, lol. Probably looks a bit like Steve Sopers at Silverstone, in '92.

Nope. Not got one. Plenty of the front but not the back end.

From memory it really didn't look that bad at all. The wonders of tank tape huh?!