Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[MG Rover Sport]

Some new 1984 ETC images have been posted to Flickr over the last couple of days, including the 1984 Donington 500 set here > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...th/5407083117/ < and there's plenty of Jags, Rovers, BMWs, Volvos, Metros, etc...

[Gavin RS]

Greetings everyone.

I will be no 101

I have not been on for a while but it is always great to keep up with the masses of info on the Rovers that get posted.

My Rover is basically complete just need to get the roll cage done and finish a few other small items. Was hoping to have it ready for our International David Piper Historic event in South Africa which was held last week end. Unfortunately it was not ready so I got to race a 1971 Alpine A110 1600 S instead. was great fun but I really need to drive my Rover, still considering the Computer Vision colours on my car as it is already blue.

Cheers

Gavin

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Gavin RS

Greetings everyone.

I will be no 101

I have not been on for a while but it is always great to keep up with the masses of info on the Rovers that get posted.

My Rover is basically complete just need to get the roll cage done and finish a few other small items. Was hoping to have it ready for our International David Piper Historic event in South Africa which was held last week end. Unfortunately it was not ready so I got to race a 1971 Alpine A110 1600 S instead. was great fun but I really need to drive my Rover, still considering the Computer Vision colours on my car as it is already blue.

Cheers

Gavin

Hi Gavin, glad to hear she's almost ready to roll!

How about Sanyo or Gitanes colour schemes for your car, like TWR ran in the early 80's. Ok so it might not be quite correct for the period history of your car but it might be nicer to have her in a race livery rather than a rally one?

Looking forward to seeing some more images as and when.

[KA]

More pics- might have posted a link for this album before, though I'm sure I haven't seen some of the pics before- 1986 TT pics by Anthony Fosh, and some of the 'non-Rover' content and lapped traffic is very interesting- pics of Alex Postan's Renault 5 Turbo at the TT aren't that common...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antspho...7608209176086/

The full album:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antspho...th/5223137035/

[Gavin RS]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Hi Gavin, glad to hear she's almost ready to roll!

How about Sanyo or Gitanes colour schemes for your car, like TWR ran in the early 80's. Ok so it might not be quite correct for the period history of your car but it might be nicer to have her in a race livery rather than a rally one?

Looking forward to seeing some more images as and when.

Hi There

Thanks.

I have considered the Sanyo or Gitanes cars, I like the colours and as you say they are circuit racers and not Rally cars. I will get some more images up soon

Cheers

Gavin

[duncs]

Originally Posted by terence bower

RE 001,has "Bastos" been edged in gold please.

Yes it has! Duncs

[corliss]

Originally Posted by duncs

Sorry guys been without computer for a couple of weeks but sadly will not be there with A379 however 001 is running and should be finished in a couple of weeks ! I am sure not exactly as it was but has 4.5 litre 300 BHP Rovertec engine standard bos plus LSD still in race trim except twin headlamps althouth I might change them to the standard lamps after!
Good to hear we are all still talking about them, When finished I will put some pics up of 001! cheers all!

Duncs

Hi Duncs, i'm a little confused, i took a good look at 001 last year and it had standard headlamps then, also surprised that the owner had sold it.
Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

I'm sure you're all aware, but for those that aren't, the 1980 TT Group 2 Rover 3500 is listed as Lot No 26 in the H&H auction at next weekend's Race Retro at Stonleigh with an estimate of between £25-30,000. The details are as follows...

The SD1 did lend itself to success on the track, however, and, keen to field a Works entry for the 1980 Tourist Trophy Race at Silverstone, BL commissioned David Price Racing to create a one-off Group 2 version. The result was this very car. Unipart were the major sponsor and Jeff Allam and Tiff Needell the drivers. Having qualified seventh out of forty-four, the V8S ran as high as third during the race before retiring with engine failure. This was the only SD1 built to Group 2 specification, the later Tom Walkinshaw Racing Vitesse racers being of Group A specification.

The car was extensively restored in 1996/1997 and once again painted in Unipart colours. A regular competitor in the Classic Touring Car Racing Club's 'Classic Thunder Championship', it has the performance to match its looks.

The technical specification includes:

- Engine: Rover-derived TVR Tuscan 4.5-litre V8 with dry sump oil system - 380-400bhp

- Transmission: Borg Warner T5 with Quick Shift mechanism plus Triumph TR8 axle with Quaife torque-bias differential

- Safety Equipment: Welded-in rollcage and plumbed-in Lifeline fire extinguisher system

- Suspension: Adjustable with Leda dampers

- Wheels/Tyres: 16 inch wheels with Avon slick and wet tyres (11.7 inches wide)

- Fuel Tank: 125-litre long range swirl pot tank

- Weight: 1128 kg (without driver)

Online listing : 1980 Rover SD1 V8S Group 2 Race Car

[MG Rover Sport]

The front spoiler, rear Vitesse spoiler and TVR Tuscan 4.5 litre engine are certainly not original equipmnt, but nice to see the car once again. I will have to buy an auction catalogue to view it a closer quarters I guess...

...the ex-Russell Gooding Servis sponsored Group A Rover Vitesse rally car A480 WOE will also be present over the weekend.

[duncs]

Originally Posted by corliss

Hi Duncs, i'm a little confused, i took a good look at 001 last year and it had standard headlamps then, also surprised that the owner had sold it.
Skip

Hi, I would love to know where you saw 001 last year as I have had it for at least five years since the auction at Gaydon where it was sold as 002! i have been told by a number of people it is 001 and came grom the auction with the headlamps broken and not as in your picture1 Anymore info greatly recieved!

Duncs

[grelley]

No 018 out for a Sunday drive last weekend.

[corliss]

Originally Posted by duncs

Hi, I would love to know where you saw 001 last year as I have had it for at least five years since the auction at Gaydon where it was sold as 002! i have been told by a number of people it is 001 and came grom the auction with the headlamps broken and not as in your picture1 Anymore info greatly recieved!

Duncs

Hi Duncs, I am not at my home PC at moment so cannot post pics, but i have quite a few of 001, i had a very good look around it last year in Northern Holland, appears genuine, a very used shell with jacking posts, all elecs and interior, NO engine or Box, Std suspension and wheels, carries I.D. Plate Chassis 001, painted in bastos colours and Definately a genuine TWR car. Owner was determined to restore car, but god knows where he will get the correct parts, I.E. Suspension, Axle, Wheels etc, the rest would be possible to source, i tried to buy it a few times and maybe one day when he realises that parts are scarce he may sell it. Pretty certain that Ken Clarke also knows of this car. As i am up to my ears restoring my TWR Grp 1 sanyo car, and almost finishing a Grp A Rally car replica, with 2 more to go on the last 2 brand new shells, i doubt i could take 001 on, so let me know if you need contact details of car, i dont think owner wants a flood of calls.
Skip

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by grelley

No 018 out for a Sunday drive last weekend.

That is a very interesting picture. Where was it taken and can you tell us about the other cars in the picture?

[corliss]

Originally Posted by duncs

Hi, I would love to know where you saw 001 last year as I have had it for at least five years since the auction at Gaydon where it was sold as 002! i have been told by a number of people it is 001 and came grom the auction with the headlamps broken and not as in your picture1 Anymore info greatly recieved!

Duncs

Couple of Pics duncs

[corliss]

Originally Posted by duncs

Hi, I would love to know where you saw 001 last year as I have had it for at least five years since the auction at Gaydon where it was sold as 002! i have been told by a number of people it is 001 and came grom the auction with the headlamps broken and not as in your picture1 Anymore info greatly recieved!

Duncs

mixture of 001 and my Grp A rally car replica

[duncs]

Originally Posted by corliss

Hi Duncs, I am not at my home PC at moment so cannot post pics, but i have quite a few of 001, i had a very good look around it last year in Northern Holland, appears genuine, a very used shell with jacking posts, all elecs and interior, NO engine or Box, Std suspension and wheels, carries I.D. Plate Chassis 001, painted in bastos colours and Definately a genuine TWR car. Owner was determined to restore car, but god knows where he will get the correct parts, I.E. Suspension, Axle, Wheels etc, the rest would be possible to source, i tried to buy it a few times and maybe one day when he realises that parts are scarce he may sell it. Pretty certain that Ken Clarke also knows of this car. As i am up to my ears restoring my TWR Grp 1 sanyo car, and almost finishing a Grp A Rally car replica, with 2 more to go on the last 2 brand new shells, i doubt i could take 001 on, so let me know if you need contact details of car, i dont think owner wants a flood of calls.
Skip

Hi Skip,

Interesting as Ken Clarke was there when I bought 002 as it was sold to me and he and a couple of others including myself were sure it was actually 001 and history on earlier posts confirm it went to the heritage museum after being painted in Bastos colours which it never ran in and used as a promotional car at AR dealerships then retired to the museum until ford took over and decided to sell most of the Austin Rover/British leyland stuff where i bought it! Perhaps some other enthusiasts might be able to shed some light on it?

Feel free to call me on if you would like to chat about it and / or let me have the guys details ?

thanks

Duncs

[duncs]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Good evening 'Duncs', and welcome to Ten Tenths!

We have actually chatted before about A379 VUK - well I say 'chatted as all we have done is corresponded via email over the last few weeks - it's David Sims here!

I knew that '379' had been rebuilt into a TWR bodyshell - as most of the others on here did too! - but I didn't know that it was actually TWR 015 bodyshell that was used. I'm not sure if you have looked back through this thread, but TWR 015 is documented on Page 84 as follows by Dave Puzey of the Rover SD1 Club...



I also never knew that Gartrac actually modofied the shell to rally spec either!

TWR 001 and 002 are similarly chronicled as follows...



My interest is the rally cars, but I'm sure my colleagues on here will get involved in all the touring car history with you. I am however in agreement with you that the other car you have in Bastos livery is TWR 001 - the show car from Gaydon.

Many thanks for taking the time to register here.

Kind regards,

David

hi skip

here is the earlier post about 001 and 002 which makes me sure i have 001

your thought will be appreciated and the pics of your car look great woukd love to see it in the flesh one day/

Duncs

[DPUZEY]

Maybe the only way to determine which is which is to carefully rub down a small piece of exterior paint work, I dont believe the paint was stripped when the liveries were changed on the cars. Does the Holland car have a proper TWR chassis plate on the bulkhead?

[corliss]

Originally Posted by duncs

hi skip

here is the earlier post about 001 and 002 which makes me sure i have 001

your thought will be appreciated and the pics of your car look great woukd love to see it in the flesh one day/

Duncs

Hi again, Car in Holland Definately has correct chassis plate, 001, all interior correct, still has air jack mounting posts, has obviously had quite a lot of racing judging by dents and scrapes underneath, car was in a showroom when i saw it and i wasnt allowed to start scraping any paint off to see what other colours were underneath, it is basically just the shell left from competition days, owner thought it had been a French Marlboro car at one time which sounds right for 001, I will try to re-establish contact and see what i can learn.
GrpA replica will be finished soon, with luck, would be nice to take it out someday before it is put up for sale, will prob be sold into Europe for Post Historic and Regularity rallies
Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Good evening 'Duncs', and welcome to Ten Tenths!

We have actually chatted before about A379 VUK - well I say 'chatted as all we have done is corresponded via email over the last few weeks - it's David Sims here!

I knew that '379' had been rebuilt into a TWR bodyshell - as most of the others on here did too! - but I didn't know that it was actually TWR 015 bodyshell that was used. I'm not sure if you have looked back through this thread, but TWR 015 is documented on Page 84 as follows by Dave Puzey of the Rover SD1 Club...

I also never knew that Gartrac actually modified the shell to rally spec either!

TWR 001 and 002 are similarly chronicled as follows...

My interest is the rally cars, but I'm sure my colleagues on here will get involved in all the touring car history with you. I am however in agreement with you that the other car you have in Bastos livery is TWR 001 - the show car from Gaydon.

Many thanks for taking the time to register here.

Kind regards,

David

Right this above is my complete post in full, and I think it is the BOLD text that is confusing issues here a little by the looks of things! Reading it again it reads totally incorrectly, and makes out that I am confirming that it is indeed TWR 001 that you own Duncs.

Please accept my apologies if I have confirmed something that is indeed not correct, or if I have confused the issue totally. I am usually very careful in how I word things as I know how it can be taken totally out of context - especially when it involves the historical past of a particular vehicle.

Looking back now I am finding it very difficult to work out exactly what I was trying to say at the time. All I can think of is that because Dave Puzey stated that TWR 001 was the ex-Metge / Schlesser car now in Bastos livery, and formerly on display in Gaydon, then when you came along Duncs, and stated...

'I belive it to be ex Rene Metge, Jean Louis Schlesser car that was in Marlboro colours but it is in Bastos colours at the moment!'

...I have simply come along and confirmed the fact - almost like I have brought the two comments together to prove it is one and the same car - rather than have anything else to use as solid evidence!

Please accept my full apologies therefore if I have implied that I have some knowledge or evidence confirming the identity of the Bastos liveried car that you own Duncs. The rally history has always been my strength - as I stated in my post above! - but please forgive me for incorrectly stating something that now appears in print for ever and a day...

...I am therefore sorry to say that I do not have any evidence, records or knowledge indicating the identity of your Bastos liveried car.

Sorry!

[duncs]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Right this above is my complete post in full, and I think it is the BOLD text that is confusing issues here a little by the looks of things! Reading it again it reads totally incorrectly, and makes out that I am confirming that it is indeed TWR 001 that you own Duncs.

Please accept my apologies if I have confirmed something that is indeed not correct, or if I have confused the issue totally. I am usually very careful in how I word things as I know how it can be taken totally out of context - especially when it involves the historical past of a particular vehicle.

Looking back now I am finding it very difficult to work out exactly what I was trying to say at the time. All I can think of is that because Dave Puzey stated that TWR 001 was the ex-Metge / Schlesser car now in Bastos livery, and formerly on display in Gaydon, then when you came along Duncs, and stated...

'I belive it to be ex Rene Metge, Jean Louis Schlesser car that was in Marlboro colours but it is in Bastos colours at the moment!'

...I have simply come along and confirmed the fact - almost like I have brought the two comments together to prove it is one and the same car - rather than have anything else to use as solid evidence!

Please accept my full apologies therefore if I have implied that I have some knowledge or evidence confirming the identity of the Bastos liveried car that you own Duncs. The rally history has always been my strength - as I stated in my post above! - but please forgive me for incorrectly stating something that now appears in print for ever and a day...

...I am therefore sorry to say that I do not have any evidence, records or knowledge indicating the identity of your Bastos liveried car.

Sorry!

Not a problem at all ! I am gratefull for any info on the car as I said I bought the car at the auction at Gaydon and it was sold as 002 but under the paint where the screen had been removed it id unmistakeably Marlboro coloured ! There is also a TWR001 plate riveted by the headlamp panel although it also has a rover chassis plate in the door shut TWR002 which is presumably why it was sold as that personally I am not bothered which it is but would just like to know?

does anybody know the whereabouts of 002 if this is not it?

Duncs

[grelley]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

That is a very interesting picture. Where was it taken and can you tell us about the other cars in the picture?

Hi David, the light blue M3 is an ex France Super Tourisme car, the dark blue M3 is an ex Zakspeed DTM spec VLN long distance car and Commodore a Replica Group A car. The photo was taken at Teretonga during a race for Historic Touring cars where there were a total of 17 entries.
Regds

[KA]

Originally Posted by duncs

Not a problem at all ! I am gratefull for any info on the car as I said I bought the car at the auction at Gaydon and it was sold as 002 but under the paint where the screen had been removed it id unmistakeably Marlboro coloured ! There is also a TWR001 plate riveted by the headlamp panel although it also has a rover chassis plate in the door shut TWR002 which is presumably why it was sold as that personally I am not bothered which it is but would just like to know?

does anybody know the whereabouts of 002 if this is not it?

Duncs

I don't think we've ever worked out where 002 went- IIRC the list of cars that Dave Puzey did for the SD1 club magazine (and posted on here) didn't mention any race or ownership history after the 1983 BTCC season as Soper's Hepolite car, and I don't think we've ever found any subesquent history in 100+ pages of discussion in this thread. So where did it go?

002 is a pretty significant part of the Rover story, as apart from all of the controversy over the 1983 BTCC season, it's the car that won the 1983 TT, which I think was Rover's first ETCC race win.

[chunterer]

As KA rightly says, 002 was a very significant TWR car, I find it highly unlikely that it was used as another racer before it's 1983 BTCC season? It kind of makes sense that it was used as a static display car maybe in a different livery?

As it was supposedly a brand new car for 1983 that really rules out the possibility of it being run anywhere else in Marlboro colours, unless that's what it did in 1984 or something?

My personal feeling is that it was either retired (as has been suggested) or possibly used as another ETC car in 1984 onwards......

Does Steve Soper know I wonder?

[duncs]

Originally Posted by chunterer

As KA rightly says, 002 was a very significant TWR car, I find it highly unlikely that it was used as another racer before it's 1983 BTCC season? It kind of makes sense that it was used as a static display car maybe in a different livery?

As it was supposedly a brand new car for 1983 that really rules out the possibility of it being run anywhere else in Marlboro colours, unless that's what it did in 1984 or something?

My personal feeling is that it was either retired *as has been suggested) or possibly used as another ETC car in 1984 onwards......

Does Steve Soper know I wonder?

Then it could be possible that I have 002 as it was sold as that from the auction at Gaydon, i am only going on the colour around the windsreen that it could have been a marlboro car and what other people said at the time that they thought it was 001! Anyone is welcome to come and see it if they think they might know?

Duncs