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29 Jun 2019, 13:25 (Ref:3914772) | #1251 | ||
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If I accept the argument that different tyre manufacturers meant different winners on a given weekend, I still have reservations that this is what is wanted after 2020.
Do we want a situation where a driver on the wrong tyres has no chance of victory? Already we see constant claims of 'X' only one because they had the best car. |
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29 Jun 2019, 13:39 (Ref:3914773) | #1252 | |
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29 Jun 2019, 13:43 (Ref:3914775) | #1253 | ||
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Quote:
Richard |
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29 Jun 2019, 13:49 (Ref:3914777) | #1254 | |
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I do find it a bit odd that the tyres are blamed for this when we've had Pirelli for the last 8 years and only 1 of those years we've had a battle between 2 teams for the title.
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29 Jun 2019, 13:51 (Ref:3914778) | #1255 | ||
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Richard |
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29 Jun 2019, 13:53 (Ref:3914779) | #1256 | |
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29 Jun 2019, 14:08 (Ref:3914781) | #1257 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
- Do we want a situation where a driver on the wrong tyres has no chance of victory? That unfairly places the blame of a team dominating on the tyres. We already have that situation without a tyre war, so I fail to see how it's a relevant statement. And then we had the statement - - My memory of the most recent tire wars is as you say. Fans didn't like it unless "their" team/driver was winning. That also unfairly places the blame of a team dominating on the tyres. We again, already have that situation. So I fail to see how the tyres can be blamed for this. Just look at what we have now. We've had a spec tyre for 8 years now. And only in one of those years have we had 2 teams battling for the title. Over 85% of the seasons since we moved to the Pirelli spec tyres have been dominated by single teams. So what negative effect did a tyre war really bring? It works in other series. If it doesn't work in F1 then they need to take a good hard look at why proven solutions in other series don't work for them. The solution isn't the problem. Quote:
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29 Jun 2019, 15:55 (Ref:3914796) | #1258 | ||
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What we have is a heavily controlled spec tire that is designed to be a lesser solution so as to add extra uncertainty to the race. Add in the requirements to change compound during the race. That is far from another option of a better tire with a wider operating window from a single provider. My complaints are with the restrictive design requirements given to Pirelli. Tire wars CAN be exciting if the providers have performance parity. But, if they don't, they also can penalize large swaths of the field who are locked into the wrong partner. Richard |
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1 Jul 2019, 22:59 (Ref:3915428) | #1259 | ||
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More DRS zones right?
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2 Jul 2019, 01:42 (Ref:3915440) | #1260 | ||
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That's what made people like the last race. 10/10.
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2 Jul 2019, 05:57 (Ref:3915452) | #1261 | ||
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So much of this is fiddling round the edges - forget about nuances of tyre spec, about which nobody sane is remotely interested , have one set per race (except in case of force majeure - puncture, rain ) . Overtaking should be on track , not by pitstop algorithm .
And the last people to influence rules are current participants , all of whom are motivated by self interest . I couldn't care less what Mercedes say - they can walk away tomorrow (as they did in the 50s, not returning for decades ). Ecclestone lost the plot years ago and has been an ageing embarrassment whose only motive has been personal greed and power -unless someone else can come up with a convincing argument why European races (you, know, where all te cars are made and most of the fans live ) are sacrificed for countries with zero interest in the sport and , in the case of Azerbaijan and Bahrain, highly suspect attitudes to press freedom and modern western values. But they pay a lot so nobody in F1 cares a flying * who they consort with. Last edited by Woolley; 2 Jul 2019 at 16:50. Reason: Please don't avoid the autocensor |
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2 Jul 2019, 07:40 (Ref:3915455) | #1262 | |||
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Quote:
Last edited by Woolley; 2 Jul 2019 at 16:50. |
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2 Jul 2019, 15:08 (Ref:3915498) | #1263 | ||
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It should be noted that the reason Mercedes left at the end of 1955 was due to fallout from Le Mans that year.
Unfortunately, the business climate is vastly different today, and for F1 to remain commercially viable now, it needs the money infusion from the manufacturers and other large corporate sponsors; you can't buy the media coverage or heavily promote the races over all the other "noise" out there without it. It used to be that companies like Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar, and Aston Martin had sales directly driven to a substantial degree by racing success. These days though, it's much more the case that the various major series need the manufacturers to drive their profile up more than the automakers necessarily need the racing cache. |
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2 Jul 2019, 23:11 (Ref:3915578) | #1264 | |
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We’ve gone so far down the wrong way in terms of regs that we can only hope most of them are reversed by 2021 in time for the rules. And hopefully a few more teams will be in it too
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3 Jul 2019, 06:31 (Ref:3915607) | #1265 | |||
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Sorry but you are assuming F1 in future needs to be the merchandising and media brand with a sideline in crap cars it has become . It doesn't need to be that at all . We certainly don't need manufacturers - they are part of the problem , not the solution And remember Ferrari were all about racing - the road cars just funded the habit. Aston Martin sales might have gone up by a few dozen after winning Le Mans in 1959( was it ?) but they sold very few cars anyway then. They sold far more when they stopped racing between 60s and recently ; ditto Maserati . |
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3 Jul 2019, 09:18 (Ref:3915631) | #1266 | ||
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No F1 isn't fixable...its been killed off by technology.
The only thing to do is scrap it and start over with a clean sheet of paper. |
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3 Jul 2019, 12:28 (Ref:3915672) | #1267 | |
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3 Jul 2019, 12:53 (Ref:3915677) | #1268 | ||
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3 Jul 2019, 13:04 (Ref:3915681) | #1269 | ||
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Ferrari paper: Rosso Corsa, known to spontaneously combust at the slightest slight Red Bull paper: has pencil marks all over it McLaren paper: whiter than every other team's paper, and infinitely squarer. Renault paper: when they find it, Cyril will let us know Toro Rosso paper: not the same as Red Bull paper, not at all, nooooooo. These aren't the pencil marks you're looking for. Haas paper: unashamedly American, and very very similar to the paper that bike company started selling Racing Point paper: Strolling around like it owns the place Alfa Romeo paper: a bit confused, like it's just been thrown around in a very expensive wind tunnel Williams paper: slightly dishevelled and not quite as good as it was when this paper racing started... |
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3 Jul 2019, 13:05 (Ref:3915682) | #1270 | |||
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Quote:
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Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
3 Jul 2019, 13:42 (Ref:3915689) | #1271 | ||
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Richard |
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3 Jul 2019, 15:20 (Ref:3915700) | #1272 | ||
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Coppice, I'll put it this way. We need the manufacturers in F1 for it to continue to have the capital and perceived prominence to be on TV in the first place. And if we can't continue to even watch it, well...
Sportscar racing has fallen into the doldrums more than once when it became largely the playground of privateers. Media coverage fell off, and along with it, the general knowledge that it even existed among less invested parts of the public. NASCAR, like F1, has only maintained its presence through manufacturer involvement. The Indy 500 itself was about the only household name in that discipline before the teams took it upon themselves to run the sport more as a commercial venture than a "club", as USAC had done up to that point. And of course, having recognized manufacturer names in the series, and promoting that, was essential to CART's rise. And we saw post-split how having Andretti, Unser, Patrick, and Penske wasn't enough to save open wheel from a crash compared to its former position. And a lot of stuff is baked in, and isn't going to change if, first, there isn't a major change in the nature of not just FOM, but the FIA itself, which approves the technical and sporting regs. Furthermore though, it's going to require wider cultural changes, including more pushback against large corporations generally, as well as a change in perception, to where people feel they have a good enough lot such that they care more about elements of the actual sport that go further below the surface. |
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3 Jul 2019, 16:10 (Ref:3915706) | #1273 | |||
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Now... that could still be a good thing. Particularly for the "tear it down and rebuild it from scratch" folks. I am not sure if it's the right or wrong answer. I lean toward reducing the power of the manufactures be it influence or funding. Their power will never go away (unless they are 100% gone), but try to pull it back it a bit. Richard |
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3 Jul 2019, 17:58 (Ref:3915729) | #1274 | ||
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The trouble is, if you tear down existing F1 to rebuild it, it will never again have its previous prominence as, for lack of a better term, an entertainment property, because that field is just so much more crowded with options vying for people's limited time and attentions than was the case in 1950, or even in 1980.
I can agree to some amount of pulling back power from the manufacturers; I'm not exactly sure what that would look like, but in principle, I can get behind that. I haven't yet been to Austin; we'd looked at going to one of the WEC races a few years ago, but by the weather forecast, it looked like the options were either to get boiled alive or drowned. So putting that one aside for now, the closest major road course is Road America, 750-800 miles away. You mentioned an F1 without manufacturers being much, much smaller; as a matter of personal valuation, it's hard to justify that travel distance for anything other than a major series like IndyCar, IMSA, you get the idea. (Heck, I'm not sure that that much smaller F1 would even have a US race.) Anyway, I hope that gives a better picture of where I'm sitting. |
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3 Jul 2019, 19:13 (Ref:3915741) | #1275 | ||
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Its interesting F1 is not on TV here anymore and it has vanished.They dont even show the highlights on the TV news.
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