2011 360MRC 6 Hour - 30th APRIL!

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by terence bower

The rules and regulations are there for everyone to read and understand Simon.

Sorry Terry, I read the rules and I didnt see anything about allowing HotRods in. Look I am not knocking Claire, John or the event and I am speaking from a spectators point of view on this occassion and I am also fully aware of the economics of the thing but as far as 'invitations and exceptions are concerned and I have had this out with CTCRC as well, I personally would prefer those exceptions laid out in the regs if not I think it will actually work against entries which is my concern.

Let me give you an example, f you read the regulations for CTCRC Post Historics and Group 1 literally you would assume big V12 Jags were not elligible, reason? They have a rule in there right at the front that they must have produced 5000 models of the car in any one year. Well I think the V12 XJ12 hardly reached that in its total production run and a similar story with the XJS. So anyone from for example Jaguar Drivers Club would read that and dismiss entering unless they knew about the exceptions.

Its the same here, I guarantee if you advertised that an invitation class was included and that hybrids at the descretion of the managment may be allowed in i think you would get more entrants (or may work against you as well who knows but at least fair) but to get guys in then slip a super car HotRod in that would'nt be allowed in any other historic based championship I know of surely must leave worst way some muttering amoungst ligit entrants.

On reflection and after having witnessed the event and entries I think a far simplair solution to the regs for an event like this would be to take a leaf out of CSCC's book and adobt their simple yet obviously effective (have you seen the grids?) regs for their Future Classics. Just my opinion but surely on a discussion forum like this we can discuss can't we without getting all uptight and upset, its how things in life progress isnt it?

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

On reflection and after having witnessed the event and entries I think a far simplair solution to the regs for an event like this would be to take a leaf out of CSCC's book and adobt their simple yet obviously effective (have you seen the grids?) regs for their Future Classics. Just my opinion but surely on a discussion forum like this we can discuss can't we without getting all uptight and upset, its how things in life progress isnt it?

[Peter Mallett]

But the Future Classics are allowed to enter.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But the Future Classics are allowed to enter.

Only some of them.

[Al Weyman]

Yes I know and as the regs for those are pretty broad based they would also let a lot of other machinery in from across the spectrum with sensible mods without being to padantic like for example later alloy heads and disc brakes but the engine block would have to be as originally fitted in the car. makes sense to me for an event like this where you want as many cars in as possible but within limits. Yes and as Tim says not the sports cars but thats OK what ever managment decide i am talking more about the general rules than specifically two or 4 plus seaters.

[Peter Mallett]

My point is, where were all these FC cars then?

[Al Weyman]

You are missing my point Peter, I quoted their rules it could have been anyones as they are more all encompassing but still keeping within reasonable parameters i.e not excluding any but the HotRods. You may recollect I was planning to do this race either in Cliffs Mexico or XJ6 or even a carlton GSi I was going to purchase, I couldnt for personal reasons but wouldnt have been happy if I had and seen the AJP Escort out there as I have raced against it before and the thing is awesome. At teh end of the day isnt it all about having some credibility as well or am I missing the point. Its all well and good saying its just for fun but show me the racer who goes out there just for fun without any hope of winning overall under any circumstances and I will show you a liar. I have never won overall but I live in hope even if it means everyone else falls off the track!

[Peter Mallett]

Ok then.

[johngee]

I'm not entering this rather heated debate publically but I think it fair to say that Claire's 'challenge' to the amount of money, the timescale and the 't's and c's' in order to widen the eligibility to include sportscars were figuartive and illustrative of the degree of financial commitment, impact and risk. Claire and my bank statements are testament to the folly of 'knee jerk' reactions and reliance of taking 'promises' (however well intentioned) as being commitment.
Just to pour petrol on the fire, I would say that my personal knowledge of the driving standards in MR2's, MX5's, TVR's etc would make me very concerened about incorporating those cars and drivers into the 6 hour. I believe that our culture, in that respect, stands very close scrutiny and we wish it to remain so.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by johngee

I'm not entering this rather heated debate publically but I think it fair to say that Claire's 'challenge' to the amount of money, the timescale and the 't's and c's' in order to widen the eligibility to include sportscars were figuartive and illustrative of the degree of financial commitment, impact and risk. Claire and my bank statements are testament to the folly of 'knee jerk' reactions and reliance of taking 'promises' (however well intentioned) as being commitment.
Just to pour petrol on the fire, I would say that my personal knowledge of the driving standards in MR2's, MX5's, TVR's etc would make me very concerened about incorporating those cars and drivers into the 6 hour. I believe that our culture, in that respect, stands very close scrutiny and we wish it to remain so.

My challenge is simple John and, if as people say they are all out there....poised with Cheque books open or indeed...online banking portals ready (in this day an age) it should not be a problem!...doddle according to some.

What I would like to point out here is that when all is said and done....when all the ranting is over......and all the points have been made ...and believe me some keep making the same point over and over and over again with the only benefit being a heated exchange ....after its all over...I think we will have to leave it in the hands of the board of Directors of The 360 Motor Racing Club Limited.....they will decide in the end wont they



Take care xxx

[Al Weyman]

OK good luck all. I was only trying to give some constructive comment based on my observations as a bystander and my past experience of starting, writing the regs for and running for ten years one of the most successful and oft copied club saloon championships of the 80/90's. Not all critisism is bad you know and IMHO shouldnt just be dismissed out of hand All these invitation classes are fine till one of them wins or takes another front running car out then things can get ugly.

I'll get me coat good luck again for next year.

[john ruston]

Did you all have a good time?
Yes.
They needed the dosh so Escort raced.
My lot didn't know they were third or whatever.No big deal.
If someone wants a long distance race for two seaters get on and sort it but don't mess with this one.You can then all start complaining because to make up numbers they have let in odd B8 or GT 40 or heaven forbid a 917ish thing.

The long term problem for 360 will be that the earlier cars will be squeezed out and later cars will swamp grid.Try a grid of five subsections covering various types and age groups.A wide span of time and good racing for all.

Just my thoughts.

Note;If someone does promote a two seater race expect it to get rave reviews on here and all sorts of promises to race.About 5 % will show up and the excuses of the others will be mind boggling.Always surprises me the help people can give spending other peoples money.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I'll get me coat good luck again for next year.

You don't have to get your coat Al and Claire and I count you as a friend.
As my dear old mother used to say "some sense comes out with the rubbish"

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Did you all have a good time?
Yes.
They needed the dosh so Escort raced.
My lot didn't know they were third or whatever.No big deal.
If someone wants a long distance race for two seaters get on and sort it but don't mess with this one.You can then all start complaining because to make up numbers they have let in odd B8 or GT 40 or heaven forbid a 917ish thing.

The long term problem for 360 will be that the earlier cars will be squeezed out and later cars will swamp grid.Try a grid of five subsections covering various types and age groups.A wide span of time and good racing for all.

Just my thoughts.

Note;If someone does promote a two seater race expect it to get rave reviews on here and all sorts of promises to race.About 5 % will show up and the excuses of the others will be mind boggling.Always surprises me the help people can give spending other peoples money.

John, I love your "tell it like it is" approach, if you want a job as our PR guy you can have it lol

Al, you know I love you really don't you? Xx

[MGDavid]

BTW Al and Andy, I do not understand your problem with the 360 Invitation class as it is EXACTLY the same as CSCC Future Classics runs. Don't believe me? - read the regs
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.u...EGULATIONS.pdf

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Its all well and good saying its just for fun but show me the racer who goes out there just for fun without any hope of winning overall under any circumstances and I will show you a liar.

Er....Peter in the Clan? (In this event) Ok I know every other car "could" fall out, but........

I have to say that in an event like this, anyone "can" have a chance because funny things can happen in endurance racing, but unless you are a realistic front runner I really can't see why eg the Escort entering would put you off entering yourself - can't be the speed differentials or you wouldn't want the Aston either......(Andy - would you really not have entered if you'd known about the Escort? Much as I love the Sud Sprint I don't see it as competing against the Aston)

@Al (again) we do have (when necessary) invitation class cars in Future Classics, too - I remember a Capri with a 24V Grananda Cosworth engine being out with us at Cadwell, for example - its just realpolitic - if you're not displacing a fully compliant entrant, why not let you in and have your money contribute to the overall budget - at the end of the day you don't win anything or affect regular competitors' points or whatever.....Of course as Future Classics is now, its oversubscribed so the matter doesn't arise.
For 360 I can see the logic of not allowing anything not fully compliant enter (or at least having their entry confirmed) until closing date for normal entries - if there is space and a budget hole then, the invitation class has a role to play

[Al Weyman]

I bet Peter still reconned he was in with a chance, ultra light car, superb handling, very economical so why couldnt it be up there BTW isnt a Clan a two seater sports car?????

I am not saying dont have an invitation class if thats what you must have i just think it should be made clear to everyone to afford them the opportunity to enter a similar weopon should they so wish.

Actually the capri with 24v engine would fit in with the CSCC regs I woul assume as its the same block that would be in the Capri Injection model and dont they say aftermarket heads are OK. i dont think many would have had a problem with that (as long as it dont win lol!)

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I bet Peter still reconned he was in with a chance, ultra light car, superb handling, very economical so why couldnt it be up there BTW isnt a Clan a two seater sports car?????

I wasn't going to open that can of worms..... Its really just an Imp with a lot of fibreglass body repairs

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Actually the capri with 24v engine would fit in with the CSCC regs I woul assume as its the same block that would be in the Capri Injection model and dont they say aftermarket heads are OK. i dont think many would have had a problem with that (as long as it dont win lol!)

Regs say "Original Silhouette, engine, gearbox and induction to be retained" - don't mention heads.....I know there was comment about the Capri, and it was in invitation and only appeared once IIRC

[Al Weyman]

Well i do know someone who races with aftermarket heads quite openly although they are the original valve arrangement. Actually he is in the earlier series not FC.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Well i do know someone who races with aftermarket heads quite openly although they are the original valve arrangement. Actually he is in the earlier series not FC.

then probably different set of regs...

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Actually the capri with 24v engine would fit in with the CSCC regs

Wouldn't the weight of all the batteries make it impractical?

Dink, where's those pictures?

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Wouldn't the weight of all the batteries make it impractical?

[Dinkel]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Wouldn't the weight of all the batteries make it impractical?

Dink, where's those pictures?

Check a few pages earlier, and a few new ones:

Greetings from Dave! He likes it where he is

[Dinkel]

Tims awesome D.


Proper six pot beef: Jelly at speed here.


Bloody hell: retirement just one lap before the flag.


Is there a list of the grids somewhere?


Want this for road legal hooning: a bit more ride height and a supercharged Ford please Santa.

[terence]

Excellent shots Albert,thanks for posting them.

John R,thank you for being so supportive towards Claire and John,you have echoed my thoughts exactly. A small point that seems to escaped a hand full of people with gripes and groans RE the Hot rod Escort. IF ALL of those [you know who you are] had entered as you said you would,things would have turned out quite differently
Another good thing to have come out from the gripes is how many there would have been IF sportscars had been allowed,I dread to think of the amount of moaning there would have been concerning the usual MGBs regarding engine sizes etc etc etc. Think on and be grateful there are really people out there who ARE willing to put their money where their mouths are and put the 360 on for you,not their own personal Bank Balances!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!