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10 Dec 2011, 17:50 (Ref:2998113) | #1251 | ||
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I wonder if Aston had been factoring in his sponsorship money into next year's plans? Blow for them if so. |
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10 Dec 2011, 22:06 (Ref:2998202) | #1252 | ||
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Daddy's checkbook can; and magically a new sticker will appear on the Rebellion cars. We don't really know how fast he is, but it would be widely known if he was something special or had set the world alight in lower formula. Apparently he's a nice person, but I seem to remember he's the only driver who spun/damaged? the AMR-One during its very short time on track.
Last edited by Félix; 10 Dec 2011 at 22:12. |
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10 Dec 2011, 22:12 (Ref:2998203) | #1253 | |
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Well I suppose if he is a safer pair of hands than JCB and he brings funding then it's a tough one to turn down for Rebellion.
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10 Dec 2011, 22:41 (Ref:2998208) | #1254 | ||
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It's not a sport anymore when our 3 most promising privateer teams in P1 involve drivers who are there because their dad distributes Pepsi products in Europe, runs a Swiss bank or more simply because they own the team, the car and the manufacturer. I call it raising a white flag.
10 years ago, Pescarolo and Oreca entered 2 (or even 3) cars with only pro and young promising drivers. We've seen what Oreca chose to do this year and Pescarolo could well do the same. |
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10 Dec 2011, 22:46 (Ref:2998210) | #1255 | |||
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Apart from the racing side of things being separate entities from the manufacturing and sales of their cars, what about the two Porsche employees who are in the inner sanctum of Audi racing at the moment, ie, Messrs Bernhard and Dumas. Surely they must be sharing some of their knowledge with their primary employer, and I am not suggesting anything underhanded, just a sharing of the know-how between the fellow VAG team mates. Even with Audi's talk of their future plans, I hold the belief that they will be leaving LMP racing before Porsche return in 2014. |
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Go the mighty Flying Lizards "A good way to gauge the strength of your argument is to weight the quality of the rebuttals. Strong arguments have low quality rebuttals." David Heinemeier Hansson |
10 Dec 2011, 23:13 (Ref:2998219) | #1256 | |
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11 Dec 2011, 04:28 (Ref:2998273) | #1257 | |||
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My apologies if my explanation is confusing, but a look at the current holding structure (my next post) should make it less so. Bernhard and Dumas are being loaned by Porsche to Audi at the request of Audi and the drivers. Secondly : it is not like Porsche has absolutely no know-how in LMP racing. Not that long ago, their LMP2 was giving the LMP1's (Diesels) something to think about on the short circuits. It is also rumored that Porsche let the Audi engineers have a "good look" around their aborted LM2000 car before Audi developed their R8 as part of the agreement for VAG co-developing the Cayenne, This took place way before the Porsche-VAG tie in. Those that know Porsche and its history, will know that there has always been strong ties and deals with VAG. ( shared parts on the 356, Porsche 914, Cayenne, the Porsche+Audi American commercial deal, etc) Also - When it was agreed that Dumas and Bernhard be loaned to Audi, there were no plans for a Porsche LMP1 entry. Finally, I suspect the 2014 rules may render much of their "gained" know how obsolete. There are always drivers changing teams in racing. This is nothing new. Last edited by Spyderman; 11 Dec 2011 at 04:57. |
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11 Dec 2011, 08:08 (Ref:2998301) | #1258 | |||
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However you are right with Audi Porsche sharing many ties, and the LMP / SUV deal is a good example on (almost) "in-house" regulation. The Joest team is also a strong tie in between Audi and Porsche, and none the less Tom and Allan who secured Porsche it's last two overall victories at Le Mans. But again so much depends which team Porsche choses (or not) to collaborate with, if they will use a manufacture for the chassis (Dallara!?), Drivers and so on. I do not see that much sharing of technology between Audi and Porsche, as they might decide to run two different technologies (Diesel and Petrol!?), to take advantage of the any regulation preferences (like some say diesel has). |
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
11 Dec 2011, 08:34 (Ref:2998309) | #1259 | ||
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My point had nothing to do with the road cars its was about the P1 projects. It makes no sense for them not to share some costs collectively until the point comes where the designs diverge to represent their respective brands. This could apply in manufacturing, purchasing, marketing, operations, personnel and ultimately strategy.
It remains to be seen (if we ever do - because they are unlikely to admit it) how much sharing goes on but I cant believe there will be none |
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11 Dec 2011, 09:22 (Ref:2998317) | #1260 | ||
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@ Mal : OK , I 'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise, so we will agree to disagree. I maintain that motor-racing projects are largely independent and classified and there will be little or no sharing (especially as there may be two different concepts presented)
@CTD - We are in agreement . Last edited by Spyderman; 11 Dec 2011 at 09:29. |
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11 Dec 2011, 12:45 (Ref:2998391) | #1261 | |||
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I see this more likely with Porsche and Audi, than a cooperation. |
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
11 Dec 2011, 13:19 (Ref:2998402) | #1262 | ||
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I'm thinking Porsche will show up with something completely different from Audi, so that they basically can't share anything.
Doesn't Porsche have a so called "diesotto" engine under wraps? Combine that with a hybrid system, and that is tech they are the only suppliers of. |
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11 Dec 2011, 15:49 (Ref:2998436) | #1263 | |||
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Maserati and Ferrari |
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11 Dec 2011, 17:11 (Ref:2998460) | #1264 | ||
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
11 Dec 2011, 17:14 (Ref:2998463) | #1265 | ||
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The Ferraris the MC12 raced against were mostly the Prodrive-built 550s, which were a bit of a rogue project without the official blessing of Ferrari.
There might still have been a few 'official' 575s around, but those were never really competitive, so I am not sure that that's a good example. |
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11 Dec 2011, 17:15 (Ref:2998464) | #1266 | |
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And Bentley-Audi is actually a good argument for technology sharing - the Bentley had a modified Audi engine after all.
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11 Dec 2011, 18:01 (Ref:2998475) | #1267 | ||
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
11 Dec 2011, 19:11 (Ref:2998493) | #1268 | ||
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I believe, only the first year.
Whether a car is competitive or not is irrelevant, they were still two brands of the same company racing against each other. Plenty of times in North America we have seen Pontiac vs. Chevrolet, Ford vs. Mercury, well into the past now... |
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11 Dec 2011, 19:37 (Ref:2998506) | #1269 | |
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VAG's boss said he had no issue with brands competing against each other, in fact it was inevitable as they considered F1, Le Mans, DTM, WRC and WTCC the only suitable series.
Premium brands Porsche, Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini's only options are Le Mans or F1, VW, Seat and Skoda will be looking at WRC or WTCC, while Audi can span both. P1's advantage is it offers the possibilty to enter different technologies so this gives some sporting and marketing seperation. |
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12 Dec 2011, 13:23 (Ref:2998785) | #1270 | ||
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13 Dec 2011, 09:31 (Ref:2999085) | #1271 | |||
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
14 Dec 2011, 16:56 (Ref:2999752) | #1272 | ||
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More speculation than rumour, but with Colin Kolles parting company with HRT will he find his way back to Sportscars in any way?
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14 Dec 2011, 17:08 (Ref:2999764) | #1273 | ||
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little OT, i've read at ultimatecarpage.com that the engine of the 458 gt reaches max power at 6250RPM, expecting a revlimit close to 6500 i guess! can be this true? the high rev direct injection engine of road 458 becomes a low rev simil-american v8 one in the 458 gt? .-. i sent some email asking for information to some driver (guy cosmo, rob bell etc...) but none replied (well for sure i didn't hope for a reply, but to try is free), is there some people well informed here? |
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14 Dec 2011, 18:06 (Ref:2999795) | #1274 | |
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http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...rers_5866.html
Seb Loeb talks about his yearning for some new speed at Le Mans, but he says he's not ruling out an appearance with one of the manufacturer teams. Maybe Porsche will hire him? |
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14 Dec 2011, 18:07 (Ref:2999796) | #1275 | |
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http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-2011-success/
Also, Falken Tires is still sticking with 1 car in the ALMS (even with an expanding Indycar program), but they're considering a long-term Le Mans effort. It wouldn't be next year, but possibly 2013 and beyond. Who knows, if there's actually rain if they come... |
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