Acura/HPD's future plans

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by prototype

I think the ACO will take a good look at how the Acura's pace was against the Audi and Peugeot. I hope that one of the diesels comes back for Petit to give another head to head comparrison. We need to get the Diesel cs. Petrol regs sorted out.

ACO can do a very good comparison in LMS this year: Aston Martin, Oreca and Pescarolo against customer Audi R10. Just wait for the Barcelona race.

The Acura is a special LMP1 car: bigger front tyres increase drag and hence reduce trap speed and small displacement engine.

[Jonerz]

I'd also like to mention that before gremlins hit, the Acura stayed on the lead lap in the fastest Sebring ever. I think many at Audi are surprised, and relieved they had so few problems with the car, but of course they had the mandate (beat Peugeot) to make the car as good as possible (along with 10 years of experience, and a certain race team called Joest).

These points bug me:

1) Why did Acura not do more for a power plant? They build a car with turbos, no (Acura RDX)? Why not turbocharge their ARX-02a?
2) Audi not double stinting had more to do with a unique 12 hour race strategy that was extremely conservative because they didn't know how the car would react to double stinted tires, and they'll save that lesson for testing.
3) The Lola is a great chassis.

There are a few bugaboos that I can't remember but I'll remember at some point.

Chris

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by prototype

I think the ACO will take a good look at how the Acura's pace was against the Audi and Peugeot. I hope that one of the diesels comes back for Petit to give another head to head comparrison. We need to get the Diesel cs. Petrol regs sorted out.

Yes, I would agree with this. Acura stepped up and brought a full blown works petrol effort to the game. The ACO (IMO) need to make sure that these two disciplines are both equally capable of winning. Giving a chance to the Acura works project as well as basically all of the privateers, read petrol powered.



L.P.

[chewymonster]

It would have been interesting to see how competitive the Acura would have been at the LMS Paul Ricard test.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

It would have been interesting to see how competitive the Acura would have been at the LMS Paul Ricard test.

exactly!, We need some kind of comparison with another larger petrol manufacture!, perhaps if Aston comes to Petit?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by CTD

exactly!, We need some kind of comparison with another larger petrol manufacture!, perhaps if Aston comes to Petit?

Huh, sorry, I myself do not consider the Lola Aston Martin as a full blown works effort!! No disrespect, but that project is a customer car with a GT-1 homologated engine trying to take advantage of a ruleset that might be discontinued in the very near future! This is a chance for the ACO to equalize the regs somewhat and they need to quit mucking about with it.



L.P.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

1) Why did Acura not do more for a power plant? They build a car with turbos, no (Acura RDX)? Why not turbocharge their ARX-02a?


Chris

Acura was pretty explicit that they simply didn't have the time. And I imagine it also wouldn't at all have worked with the ARX-02a's philosophy because then you'd have to package larger radiators, intercoolers, and turbos which adds weight and hurts weight distribution.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Huh, sorry, I myself do not consider the Lola Aston Martin as a full blown works effort!! No disrespect, but that project is a customer car with a GT-1 homologated engine trying to take advantage of a ruleset that might be discontinued in the very near future! This is a chance for the ACO to equalize the regs somewhat and they need to quit mucking about with it.
L.P.

No of course!. And i didn't mean Aston as an full blown works effort, but Aston is (how it looks right now) the strongest petrol car, after the Acura!, so therefor a race with both Aston and Acura, is the only thing which can show how fast/slow the Acura really is!

[Ted bennett]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

This really shows have slow privateer efforts have just screwed up the balance in sportscar racing. Because privateer effortswere slow they discouraged real manufactures from coming in with a powerful well packaged machine. I was really hoping acura would go for power an weight saving with a V8. The manufacturers are being falsely scared into not joining. No Serious manufacturer effort has ever challenged the Audi or peugeot. So Aucra thought they had to do something radically different. The AMR effort last year may have shown some speed but the Lola chassis has just been a joke. There will be no battle in P2. The lola cannot compete with the Acura. They refuse to give up on that design. If Mazda really wanted to compete they would come to P1. the engine they ran in the old car from the 90's was superpowerful. The furai concept can be tweaked. I'm tired of manufacturers coming in with a lola insted of building there own car. The Lola just is not good enough. The only team that could compete with the P1 lola is dyson. Too bad they droped that effort.

Save your anger for the ACO and lay of the privateers. Suggestting that privateer performance has scared off major manafacturers is pure twaddle. When the ACO drew up the regs for diesel engines they were forced to throw Audi a very big bone with a huge restrictor or else they faced losing the only major player they had from the race. Petrol engined cars have not had a prayer againt the diesels up till now and it is that fact that has stopped other players from joining the game. The ACO basicaly had to let Audi draught there own regulations if they wanted Audi to continue which of course they did. Now the ACO are having to chip away at those rules to find some sense of equivalency and maybe when that happens we will see a new player join in, most likely only to replace Audi who will call it a day.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Ted bennett

Now the ACO are having to chip away at those rules to find some sense of equivalency and maybe when that happens we will see a new player join in, most likely only to replace Audi who will call it a day.

Porsche

[deggis]

...with diesel.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Acura was pretty explicit that they simply didn't have the time. And I imagine it also wouldn't at all have worked with the ARX-02a's philosophy because then you'd have to package larger radiators, intercoolers, and turbos which adds weight and hurts weight distribution.

Do you think that they are happy with the engine choice as of now? Though I will remind myself they did stay on the lead lap until problems hit, so perhaps it's not as bleak as it seems.

Chris

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by deggis

...with diesel.

With RS Spyder DFI engine

[deggis]

Of course I was joking but never say never. Actually Porsche did say never, but the diesel Cayenne certainly won't be the their last diesel car...

[juicy sushi]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Aucra thought they had to do something radically different.

they did. the rules still favour diesels, so acura knew they'd need to do something which took advantage of the diesel's weaknesses. that's why the ARX-02 is the car it is.

The AMR effort last year may have shown some speed but the Lola chassis has just been a joke. There will be no battle in P2. The lola cannot compete with the Acura. They refuse to give up on that design.

on what basis is the lola a joke? there is no other customer chassis available which has demonstrated similar pace. the acura may be too much for the lola, but it should be given that it was too much for the R10 and RS Spyder on occasion.

If Mazda really wanted to compete they would come to P1. the engine they ran in the old car from the 90's was superpowerful. The furai concept can be tweaked.

you seem to be labouring under a misapprehension. mazda is a very small firm with a very limited budget. P1 is right out of their league. they don't have the cash or resources to do that. providing a cost-effective engine to privateers is the level of resources they have, and that's what they have aimed at. sucessfully.

I'm tired of manufacturers coming in with a lola insted of building there own car. The Lola just is not good enough. The only team that could compete with the P1 lola is dyson. Too bad they droped that effort.

do you have any idea how much it costs to develop an LMP chassis? in particular, how much audi, peugeot and acura have spent to develop theirs? not everyone has that kind of money (aston martin certainly don't). nor do they have that kind of inclination.

racing costs money. not everyone has a lot of that at the moment, or even in good times...

[The359]

Furai can be tweaked? There's nothing remotely P1-like on the Furai.

[Aslak Vind]

I find it strange, that Acura stay with a 4,0 engine. Obviously not enough umph..

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

I find it strange, that Acura stay with a 4,0 engine. Obviously not enough umph..

Me also, if they did not want to build a bigger engine one would have thought they would have went down to 3.4L and got the ACO to give them restrictor breaks etc.. for running to the 2011 rule-set. Maybe they just ran out of time and we will see this route (either) mid season with a rehomologation of the car?



L.P.

[Aslak Vind]

The ACO doesnt care what they do, the car is not going to Mulsanne anytime soon. It must be a timeissue, just upgrading the P2 engine.

It seems like one of the few shortcomings of a great car, which really is designed for ALMS in mind. But given the P1 category in the ALMS; there is no need to upgrade, it will win hands down.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Me also, if they did not want to build a bigger engine one would have thought they would have went down to 3.4L and got the ACO to give them restrictor breaks etc.. for running to the 2011 rule-set. Maybe they just ran out of time and we will see this route (either) mid season with a rehomologation of the car?

L.P.

My theory on why Acrua have gone for a 4.0l version of the P2 engine is that they are developing the car for 2011.

Power will be cut to 520bhp by the new rules, so cornering will become more important than straightline speed, and Acura have a very good 2011-compliant engine.

[Aslak Vind]

Thats two years away, why sacrifice anything by being weakchested on the straights. The car is really a strike of genious, nad they could scare most of the opposition, given a decent engine..

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by juicy sushi

they did. the rules still favour diesels, so acura knew they'd need to do something which took advantage of the diesel's weaknesses. that's why the ARX-02 is the car it is.

mazda is a very small firm with a very limited budget. P1 is right out of their league. they don't have the cash or resources to do that. providing a cost-effective engine to privateers is the level of resources they have, and that's what they have aimed at. sucessfully.

The ACO rules favor bigger displacement engines, this is why it would be interesting what the Acura does against some LMS cars. A 6 liter Acura would have more engine performance, but that's not the direction Acura took.

As for Mazda, they are not a small company, they just aren't spending a lot of money for ALMS racing.

[juicy sushi]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

The ACO rules favor bigger displacement engines, this is why it would be interesting what the Acura does against some LMS cars. A 6 liter Acura would have more engine performance, but that's not the direction Acura took.

As for Mazda, they are not a small company, they just aren't spending a lot of money for ALMS racing.

they don't have anywhere near the budget of audi or acura, and gordon kirby wrote in a recent article on mazdaspeed that their entire competition department in north america (the group overseeing all their racing in north america) was less than 15 people, if i recall correctly. they really are a lot smaller than the other players, in budget and other resources...

[Bentley03]

Have to say, I have serious doubts about this car (the P1). Reading between the lines (based on comments from the drivers), it sounds like it's a bit of a handful. 2 mistakes from Brabs in the same race......just doesn't happen, does it?

Question is, is it simply a case of the drivers needing to get used to it, or is there something more fundamentally wrong?

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Have to say, I have serious doubts about this car (the P1). Reading between the lines (based on comments from the drivers), it sounds like it's a bit of a handful. 2 mistakes from Brabs in the same race......just doesn't happen, does it?

Question is, is it simply a case of the drivers needing to get used to it, or is there something more fundamentally wrong?

I think it was Dixon in interview that said it breaks away at both ends suddenly and at the same time, which would seem to be a combination of the polar moment location and the same size tires (I guess?). I imagine they have the ability to move balast if need be to perhaps 'soften' up this responsiveness. It is a very technically interesting machine. Perhaps too interesting.