[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[Swedishsuffle]

Originally Posted by teabag1993

I'd say this year will be the best indication. It's very disheartening to see, especially for Dynamics fans such as myself.

I think Shedden's got it in him still to win another title, and he put up a good fight last year considering the Civic was roundly out-developed by the Hyundai and Toyota by the closing rounds.

One thing I'm almost certain of is that Dynamics can't keep doing the same thing that they've done for the past 2 seasons. Shedden has a number of personal sponsors that seem very involved with his campaign (GS Yuasa, Tunnocks etc)- perhaps one of them could write a bigger cheque this year and upgrade to a title sponsor?

Or, they need to think outside the box again like in 2005 with the Integra. Find a loophole, or employ a new grid or points strategy, anything really. I just want to see Dynamics back at the top before I lose my marbles.

I am with you on this. I think Dynamics are the most transparent when it comes to showing money = development. 21 I think shedden was just unlucky to start with and getting back used to the BTCC. Last year they were quick but to be outclassed by a team running a Civic they built didn’t look great. I am a huge Dynamics fan and a fan of Matt and Gordon aswell as Honda since early 2000s. Just feel they don’t have the commercial grounding the had from 2012-2016 and Honda U.K. gave them that.

[Swedishsuffle]

Anyone fancy AJ for a return with maybe Toyota given his Motul connection?

Maybe an outsider for the Dynamics seat?

Although maybe a bit abrasive for some teams given his history

[yellowbeard]

Originally Posted by Swedishsuffle

[
Not made in local Swindon now. Shipping shells from Japan would be horrendous in terms of cost - probably cheaper to strip fully built road cars!

Not sure it would cost a horrendous amount of money to import shells from Japan. 33k for a civic In the U.K. I have no doubt it’s cheaper than that to ship and also taking in to account the Labour to strip a road car. Maybe the cost for molding body parts and wings however might be a fair bit.

I wonder if there any front end write offs available yet, it all gets cut off anyway. It's not as expensive to make the moulds these days as they can be 3D printed instead of made by hand.

[redshoes]

The cost of the shell, with or without shipping, is only a small part of it, there's still the hours of specialist design and fabrication to consider. But for what benefit? Unless there is a fundamental problem with the current car or it is out of homologation then is there really any advance to spending all that time and money. Different story if you had manufacturer backing and they want to promote their latest model, but that's not the case here.

What is being suggested is just change for change's sake.

[Swedishsuffle]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The cost of the shell, with or without shipping, is only a small part of it, there's still the hours of specialist design and fabrication to consider. But for what benefit? Unless there is a fundamental problem with the current car or it is out of homologation then is there really any advance to spending all that time and money. Different story if you had manufacturer backing and they want to promote their latest model, but that's not the case here.



What is being suggested is just change for change's sake.

It isn’t really change for change sake. The new civic is much more efficient in terms of aero than previous generation. The point being support would be giving them the body shells for free. As we know works teams are long gone but some form of support for instance donating body shells to promote the latest model which Honda seem keen on getting out there makes sense to me. They have the engine and running gear and experience.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Swedishsuffle

The new civic is much more efficient in terms of aero than previous generation.

As a road car maybe, but how much of that is the rear spoiler and aero sculpting of body panels, which is largely negated on the race car. Is the base shell, without the Type-R bodywork flourishes, really that much of an improvement over the old model.

[Evantra]

In ex-BTCC driver support package news, Coates and Hammerton will run in the Porsche Sprint Challenge with Graves. Last year’s champion Harry Foster, son of Nick, is headed to Carrera Cup.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Swedishsuffle

I am with you on this. I think Dynamics are the most transparent when it comes to showing money = development. 21 I think shedden was just unlucky to start with and getting back used to the BTCC. Last year they were quick but to be outclassed by a team running a Civic they built didn’t look great. I am a huge Dynamics fan and a fan of Matt and Gordon aswell as Honda since early 2000s. Just feel they don’t have the commercial grounding the had from 2012-2016 and Honda U.K. gave them that.

It goes back further than that AmD Tordoff / Butcher made them look pretty average

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Evantra

In ex-BTCC driver support package news, Coates and Hammerton will run in the Porsche Sprint Challenge with Graves. Last year’s champion Harry Foster, son of Nick, is headed to Carrera Cup.

Sprint Challenge GB is looking quite interesting for 2023, great to see that championship growing.

[Pickles]

I think some on here are massively underestimating the cost of designing and building a modern NGTC car. As has been said, especially switching to the New Civic which is largely a face-lift, would be a complete waste of time once the regulation aero etc is applied. Even if you can pick up some front end write offs cheap at the local scrappy Much better putting any available funds into developing what you've already got.

[antnee]

Are people really suggesting that Dynamics haven't learnt anything in the 5 years since introducing the FK8? They haven't found a single thing that they would do differently when designing a new car? Not forgetting that the hybrid introduction brought in large changes which may have required compromises when packaging them in an existing design.

I'm sure if the money was available, they would have a pair of shiny new FL5s sat on the grid this year and they would be much quicker than the FK8s, taking the title challenge back to the I30's and BMWs

[Pickles]

Of course they would, the same as every team would build brand new cars every couple of years IF the money was available.

[cameronpoe]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Of course they would, the same as every team would build brand new cars every couple of years IF the money was available.

Just on this , my understanding and it really is from a top team owner currently in BTCC is that 4 New Cars is a £2m investment, so not for the faint hearted, of course that is probably a 4-5 year life cycle , development in off season goes on and costs money for employees , and manufacturing , it’s an expensive process, the current cars with this tyre are getting faster so not at end of development cycle for most , I think they could do with freeing up a bit on the Regs ( Personal Opinion).
I could see someone getting close to a 15 dead at Thruxton this year so nearly Super Touring times.

[Swedishsuffle]

I think the point is that the current civic is at the end of its cycle and that I don’t think there is much else left in terms of development.

I know the cost involved however if they want to remain the squad they were and be a top team the cheapest option given the Honda engine they have and running gear it would be to build new civics rather than build something else.

[S griffin]

Interesting move for Rowbo. Hopefully he regain his 2021 form this year

[coffinpilot]

Changing the subject a little to ask a question.
What is the dbA for BTCC cars?

Spotted a test day at Croft coming up with a 114 dbA limit and was wondering if they could test NGTC cars in there. Have seen a few teams join general test days there in the past pre-season and it's on my doorstep.

[t4tinks]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Changing the subject a little to ask a question.
What is the dbA for BTCC cars?

Spotted a test day at Croft coming up with a 114 dbA limit and was wondering if they could test NGTC cars in there. Have seen a few teams join general test days there in the past pre-season and it's on my doorstep.

last year was ''The maximum noise level is 115 dB(A) at 4500 rpm measured at 0.5 metres distance''

Might have to venture to Croft on the 28th March and see.

[psq43]

Originally Posted by t4tinks

last year was ''The maximum noise level is 115 dB(A) at 4500 rpm measured at 0.5 metres distance''

Might have to venture to Croft on the 28th March and see.

Really? Wow. I expected it to be louder than that given my road car is 128db at 4000rpm.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by psq43

Really? Wow. I expected it to be louder than that given my road car is 128db at 4000rpm.

Of course, you wouldn't be admitting in public to taking that on the road, given that the legal limit in the UK is 80dB?

[psq43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Of course, you wouldn't be admitting in public to taking that on the road, given that the legal limit in the UK is 80dB?

I don't recall it being tested for noise on its previous MOTs.

How do the pop 'n bang Polo gang get away with it with their lamp post exhausts.

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Of course, you wouldn't be admitting in public to taking that on the road, given that the legal limit in the UK is 80dB?

Lower than 80db it seems.

The legal noise limit for cars in the UK is 72 decibels for cars registered since 2016; for cars registered after 2007 and before 2016 should be no louder than 74 decibels.

Also lower limits are to be introduced by 2026. For newer cars.

Also you need police to actually stop and prosecute drivers with excessively loud exhausts.



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[Pringles]

Originally Posted by psq43

I don't recall it being tested for noise on its previous MOTs.



How do the pop 'n bang Polo gang get away with it with their lamp post exhausts.

Not enough police on the roads to actually do much about it, just like illegal spacing of number plates and all the rest of the crap people do to cars.



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[psq43]

Originally Posted by Pringles

Lower than 80db it seems.

The legal noise limit for cars in the UK is 72 decibels for cars registered since 2016; for cars registered after 2007 and before 2016 should be no louder than 74 decibels.

Also lower limits are to be introduced by 2026. For newer cars.

Also you need police to actually stop and prosecute drivers with excessively loud exhausts.



Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

The last bit exactly. Apart from where the max power brigades tend to assemble en masse, (which I avoid), I've not seen anyone driving along merrily without drawing attention, getting pinched for noise.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by psq43

Really? Wow. I expected it to be louder than that given my road car is 128db at 4000rpm.

Are you sure - that's jet fight territory!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Are you sure - that's jet fight territory!

Maybe he has a Saab Gripen?