Lister Hybrid

[JAG]

Lister are off the pace, but 3.54 is not a representative time.

Based on their LMS pace 3.44 would have been nearer the mark, with more development to come.

It seems they've become bogged down, maybe they should take a look at their competition and see whats working for them.

[The Badger]

Yeah , but thats their usual line "with more development to come" .

Ever hear of cry wolf ..... there comes a time when folks dont believe you anymore .

Lister in my opinion , should try and get their hands on a C6R and go racing "proper" next year .

You cant do LMP on a budget , these days and go play with the big boys .

[ss_collins]

You can in P2 but GT1 and P1 these days are serious things

[The Badger]

And getting more serious with the SR9 and Spyder RS , and Courage LC75 Acura about to grace the circuits .

[ss_collins]

Wouldn't say the Alien is more or less serious that the LC75, Pilbeam or B05/40.

Don't forget the Lola Acuras too.

However the RS Spyder (9R6) is in a different league, not really what P2 is about.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yeah , but thats their usual line "with more development to come" .

Ever hear of cry wolf ..... there comes a time when folks dont believe you anymore .

Lister in my opinion , should try and get their hands on a C6R and go racing "proper" next year .

You cant do LMP on a budget , these days and go play with the big boys .

Didn't they finish 3rd at Istanbul?

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Wouldn't say the Alien is more or less serious that the LC75, Pilbeam or B05/40.

Don't forget the Lola Acuras too.

However the RS Spyder (9R6) is in a different league, not really what P2 is about.

This is a sidetrack, but I don't really agree, Sam. I think with Porsche you're seeing Penske + factory pilots (perfect preparation, perfect driving), not a car that's inherently better than the rules intended. Nothing against Intersport, who I hold very dear, but they're on Goodyears for cryin' out loud...

[Tim Northcutt]

Who is doing the aero changes on the Lister?

Is it Mr. Pearce, himself???

Is he an aerodynamicist???

Just asking....because the car doesn't even remotely resemble what it looked like in its original form as created by Mr. Thorby, IMO.

[gwyllion]

The Lister Storm Hybrid LMP1 was designed by Dan Alexander and has not yet benefited from any wind tunnel development.

source: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsaugust05.html

I have the impression that this wind tunnel development has not been done at all.

[ss_collins]

off topic again to LMP2... if you buy a RS Spyder (for e1.5 Million not including, tyres, spares and support) then you have to conform to certain requirement Porsche are going to activley enforce, (not modding the car in anyway, not doing anything at all outside the Porsche image) if you buy the car and fail to comply then Porsche will take the car away from you and you lose you cash.

You have to sign a document to this effect apparently. I can't confirm this as I don't have the budget to buy another Porsche...

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by JAG

Lister are off the pace, but 3.54 is not a representative time.

Based on their LMS pace 3.44 would have been nearer the mark, with more development to come.

It seems they've become bogged down, maybe they should take a look at their competition and see whats working for them.

Well qualifying has come and gone and they did indeed improve their time to a 3:50.940. But they're still 20 seconds off pole and last in class some 10 seconds off the Chamberlain Lola. It was the only LMP1 car not to out qualify the LMP2 pole sitter.

So maybe they had problems. Well, so did Zytek, who managed to set a quick time despite changing an engine. It still does not look good for Lister. GT1 will not be any easier.

[gwyllion]

They are outpaced by 7 LMP2 car. Their entry should have gone to the 2nd Creation

[gwyllion]

The final solution for the front was again different during the race:

[WouterM]

It looks like another chapter will be added to the Lister Nosejob Soap Opera before it is retired at the end of the season. The reason it is not here (Nurburgring) is because they are again modifying the nose in a (deparate) attempt to make the car competitive for the final two races of the season.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by WouterM

It looks like another chapter will be added to the Lister Nosejob Soap Opera before it is retired at the end of the season. The reason it is not here (Nurburgring) is because they are again modifying the nose in a (deparate) attempt to make the car competitive for the final two races of the season.

It's due to show up in the ALMS in 2007, so development may be worthwhile.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by JAG

It's due to show up in the ALMS in 2007, so development may be worthwhile.

I first want to see some proof for this rumors. Who would want to run an old and not so fast LMP1 car?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I first want to see some proof for this rumors. Who would want to run an old and not so fast LMP1 car?

Well, as I understand it Jens Moller actually owns the Lister. I don't know the specifics of the deal but it was his money that either led to the car's (Hybrid LMP1) creation or helped supplement it. Either way, he is a very large investor and he'll want to continue to do something with this investment next year (naturally). ALMS will be the only place to do so because of the exclusion of hybrids in the LMS next year. Now if only the Lister was developed as intended...this shot gun approach to car design certainly isn't helping the project. Might I suggest LP step away from the car and let someone else attempt to rectify it? I think the car has a good mechanical starting point and Dan Alexander's design, if applied as intended, certainly has interesting potential. We'll never know though...the constant changes, changes away from how the car should have been realized, are hurting the program.

[canam]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

... ALMS will be the only place to do so because of the exclusion of hybrids in the LMS next year...

Assuming it is still going, the Japanese LM series is another opportunity.

I believe it is too late for the LMP Storm. The Hybrid design never worked (whereas the original design did have some promise). Had the original design been fitted with an engine worthy of the rest of the car, history could have been a lot different. Hindsight is, after all, 20/20 vision.

Sadly, it is not worth throwing more money at it.

[JAG]

I'm guessing the major investments already been made, and if they can sort out the nose it could at least be an interesting entry.

[The Badger]

I would like them to stay at home , at least their reputation would not suffer . And come back next year with a competitive GT1 .

More work on aero ..... and not enough races to left to show its potential ..... sad !

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I would like them to stay at home , at least their reputation would not suffer . And come back next year with a competitive GT1 .

More work on aero ..... and not enough races to left to show its potential ..... sad !

Note** MMike is suggesting that the Team may go in one direction, the car in another next year... so the team will be working on this GT1... whether it competes next year or not is another thing.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Note** MMike is suggesting that the Team may go in one direction, the car in another next year... so the team will be working on this GT1... whether it competes next year or not is another thing.

Hopefully that would be the case. There is still the potential that if the car comes over the American Le Mans Series that indeed Lister could be running it for Mollers.

[gwyllion]

Does anyone have pictures of the last aero development of the Lister? I read in their report of Donington that

During this time the front end has evolved – the car has been to the windtunnel which showed a big improvement in front end downforce so it was time to see how it handled on track. It is not ideal to develop a car at a race meeting but there has been no time for testing.

...

The afternoon practice was dry – but an airjack failure after 15 minutes (it would not retract) meant an hour was lost and there was not enough time to find a competitive set-up for the car – but it was ‘the best it has been in hybrid form’. As anticipated, our qualifying pace was not what it could have been – Justin qualified 9th in LMP1.

...

Jens then took the wheel – there were no problems with the car until, after 15 laps, the engine dropped a valve – this was the engine that ran at Le Mans in the second qualifying, warm-up and race.

Why do all the effort of solving the aero problems and then show up with an old engine?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Why do all the effort of solving the aero problems and then show up with an old engine?

The engine "only" did 192 laps at Le Mans, so should have had a bit of life left in it. There's also the valid consideration that they don't have infinite resources and know full well that the car would benefit from some aero work.

I was sorry to see it go out so early at Donington - in the flesh it looks really distinctive and the engine note works well.

[The Badger]

I have a feeling that they have modified the car so much , that they have lost their way . Its doing their reputation as a top team no good at all . I used to like it , now its just sad to see , imo .