ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014

[dj choc ice]

Well. I didn't see this coming. I wonder what this entails for the Prototype teams in each respective championship? I imagine with the current factory support in the GTE class that those cars will remain, if only for the big manufacturer support ala Chevrolet, Dodge etc. I guess it could mean more entries for the WEC. It could be the push that sends Dyson and Cytosport and possibly even Level 5 to the WEC. One mans loss another mans gain potentially.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I was talking about the rules...this sellout most likely means the end of LMP/GTE racing in NA.

They didn't put a bullet in Ol' Yeller because he was a happy, healthy and productive dog.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

I think Dyson's next 'move' will be to bankruptcy.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I come back from my daily duties and this is what shows up! I jumped out of my seat! I won't be going through 8 pages but I will put in my 2 cents.

I believe this sadly ends the relationship between Le Mans and North America. I see the new series having updated DPs, GT3s, and Grand-Am GTs. A lot of factors led to this but I can't see light at the end of the tunnel. Having NASCAR basically run sportscar racing...that sounds like trouble. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Yeah, I should be distraught that sportscar racing in the US has secured a future in a unified fashion.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

Well. I didn't see this coming. I wonder what this entails for the Prototype teams in each respective championship? I imagine with the current factory support in the GTE class that those cars will remain, if only for the big manufacturer support ala Chevrolet, Dodge etc. I guess it could mean more entries for the WEC. It could be the push that sends Dyson and Cytosport and possibly even Level 5 to the WEC. One mans loss another mans gain potentially.

Dyson is on it's last breath. Maybe if Porsche throws them a bone in 2014. Cytosport and Level 5 might go to the WEC in P2.

[thebear]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

IMSA Race control? Today has shown it's just as garbage if not worse than Grand Am's.

IMSA's "Race Control" team travels with the series. GA Stewards travel with the series but use `local talent' at each venue for Race Control.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by thebear

IMSA's "Race Control" team travels with the series. GA Stewards travel with the series but use `local talent' at each venue for Race Control.

So that's why Grand Am is so inconsistent (from good to horrible) while IMSA is consistently mediocre/bad.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Whoever Grand Am had in Montreal they need to keep full time.

[fieldodreams79]

I thought a Grand Am Fusion had something to do with a new Pontiac/Ford prototype.

Hopefully, my home track remains unmolested while this double terd sandwich is sorted out. Please, make the on track product worth watching and the cars interesting.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I thought a Grand Am Fusion had something to do with a new Pontiac/Ford prototype.

Hopefully, my home track remains unmolested while this double terd sandwich is sorted out. Please, make the on track product worth watching and the cars interesting.

The Petit LeMans is going to be renamed "The Goody's Headache Powder Atlanta 1000"

[gregtummer]

It'll be a a 10 hour race at the pace DPs go.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

The Petit LeMans is going to be renamed "The Goody's Headache Powder Atlanta 1000"

A title sponser would be a good thing.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

The Petit LeMans is going to be renamed "The Goody's Headache Powder Atlanta 1000"

I know you are joking, but what scares me is that reality may end up closer to this than you think.

Richard

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Articus

I guess this just means one less championship I follow and more time devoted to living life

No it means you will spend more time following North American sports car racing.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Yeah, I should be distraught that sportscar racing in the US has secured a future in a unified fashion.

IndyCar/ChampCar unified...how is that going for them?

I don't care how many sportscar series there are in NA, all I care about are the cars and the product on the track. I want to see LMPs, not DPs. I want to see GTEs, not the circus known as GT3 or Grand-Am's version of GT.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Salamus

IndyCar/ChampCar unified...how is that going for them?

I don't care how many sportscar series there are in NA, all I care about are the cars and the product on the track. I want to see LMPs, not DPs. I want to see GTEs, not the circus known as GT3 or Grand-Am's version of GT.

This is how I feel as well. I hate DP's. God they are so ugly. I don't want DP's to become the face of American Sportscar racing.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Articus

This is how I feel as well. I hate DP's. God they are so ugly. I don't want DP's to become the face of American Sportscar racing.

and slow.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

ptclaus, please help spread some sense to the Trackforum sportscar forum with me.

Well there's an irony. Jumping down someone's throat for saying people who share his opinion "get it," proceeding to call your own opinion "sense."

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The real kicker is that most of the people boohooing and waxing poetically about the grand nature of the ALMS were the same people vehemently against the Delta Wing and what it stood for.

Not me. DeltaWing is my favorite modern racecar. I wish it had been homologated as a classified LMP. If it beat them all on efficiency, that's racing. Happened at the Indy 500, back when they allowed racing.

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Who says the series won't have an ACO class(or classes) in it, I doubt Grand Am is stupid enough to dump BMW, Corvette and Viper money.

You're assuming BMW, Corvette, and Viper want to move their ALMS GT programs to the new series, though. And certainly they could. But it's also possible BMW will just say "DTM's good enough," Corvette will get more involved with the DP, and Viper will go to the WEC, or some combination therein. I have no idea, though. None of us will for a long time.

Originally Posted by picchiofan

They didn't put a bullet in Ol' Yeller because he was a happy, healthy and productive dog.

Unfortunately you're right. ALMS had the best specifications...but also ones that no one could find sense in running. It's a reality I hated and still hate, but it's reality.

Originally Posted by Salamus

IndyCar/ChampCar unified...how is that going for them?

I don't care how many sportscar series there are in NA, all I care about are the cars and the product on the track. I want to see LMPs, not DPs. I want to see GTEs, not the circus known as GT3 or Grand-Am's version of GT.

Yep. I just don't find Grand-Am's product compelling.

But if they're going to make a series I don't enjoy, I hope it's at least healthy for those involved so the mechanics etc. can stay employed. It'd be even worse, for me, to make a series I don't enjoy and one that's no healthier than the present one.

That said, I'm selfish, so I hope they make a series I enjoy. I'm not expecting one, but I'm hoping.

[gsmith2424]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

and slow.

and reliability that is still questionable over a 24hr race unless there is multiple FCC's.

[pablocomics]

I think that we´ll see something different to the current series, probably we´ll have a few years of transition with a mixed grid.

In my opinion we´ll be back to something close to the previous years of the Grand-AM/IMSA split, because the current Grand-AM standars has been a complete failure. It won´t be very crazy to see the GTO/GTP name classes getting back. Probably we´ll see some overpowered DP and some LMP2 with big american DP engines on prototypes. The GTE cars running against overpowered sillouettes and GT3-current DaytonaGT as Pro/AM class

[chernaudi]

I believe that this has everything to do with NASCAR and IMSA wanting to get into the FIA/ACO's pants with the WEC stuff. The WEC has poached teams from the LMS (Rebellion, OAK), the ALMS LMP grid (chiefly Audi Sport), and from the ALMS and Grand Am, in this instance mostly the gentleman driver crewed squads and individuals, the Tracy Khrons and the Rob Kauffmans who wanted to race on a grand stage and reap the biggest bang for their considerable bucks, hence why Audi and Toyota are in the WEC right now.

But what does this have to do with the ALMS and Grand Am trying to get their piece of the FIA/ACO WEC pie? It's well rumored that the WEC was looking for a stand alone 1000km/6hr or even a 12 hour race in NA, most likely in Austin, for '13 in preference to a mixed WEC/ALMS Sebring event. Well, NASCAR and IMSA have been trying to latch on to the buttocks of Jean Todt since Mad Max Mosley left the FIA. Todt has been extremely pro-sportscar and pro-American (odd for a Frenchman LOL) in his views for F1 and sportscar racing since he hatched the idea for the WEC. Fact is that Jean Todt knows where the economic power lays in motorsport, and he believes that Bernie and Max neglected America and that the US is a largely untapped potential for the economy of worldwide motorsport.

By the same token, Don Panoz and Jim France know where the power lays in sportscar racing right now, and it's mostly with the FIA and the ACO with the WEC. I don't think that the FIA or ACO would be insanely supportive of the idea of having two competing American series with differing rules and philosophies when a united series can exist to feed teams into the 24 Hours of Le Mans and possibly the NA WEC rounds, or the whole WEC itself.

Then there's the rumors of ISC (majority owned by NASCAR execs like Jim France) trying to get their slice of the pie by helping host a second NA WEC round. M. Todt and the WEC committie and several factory teams (Audi and Toyota) have been supportive of a second WEC event in the US, and again, it's all about marketing and economic value. Of course, the Daytona 24 factors into the discussion. Right now, I don't think that the FIA and ACO would think it wise to run current LMP1s at Daytona, when, in spite of making far less power than the cars of pre-2011 eras, are just as fast and are running laps at Le Mans at an average speed of just under 150mph. God only knows what they'd do around Daytona, and there's still questions of the LMP1's safety at LM with high speed flips.

But here, I think that we need to look at a different angle on the ISC deal. What other well-known US road course do they own? Why, the own Watkins Glen, which used to be a frequent stop on the WSC from the mid-60's to the mid-70's. If the WEC can't race at Daytona, they can pretty damn easily race at Watkins Glen, which would be a helluva coup for ISC , especially if it were a 12 hour race, even without the Daytona 24 getting WEC recognition.

A couple more factors: Manufacturer support and new regs for '14.

First, the manufacturers' end of this. Which two factory teams are running in LMP1 in the WEC now? Audi Sport and Toyota Motorsport GmbH. Who have been rumored to be looking at LMP1 programs for the ALMS in some form for '13 as far as rumblings and speculation? Audi Sport and TMG. I think that Audi AG and Toyota Motor Corporation (who own Audi Sport and TMG respectively) have some clout here, as does Porsche and HPD if Honda increases their involvement in the WEC. And then there's the GM/Porsche/Ferrari/Chrysler/Lotus/et al GT contingent who would love to exploit a stable, world-wide rules package to sell race cars. Audi, Toyota, and the GT guys can bring a lot of marketing money to the table, but only if they feel that their ROI will be repaid in full, and one unified American series can do that for them, and if IMSA/Grand Am can do that for them.

And that brings the '14 rules. There are significant changes for the LMP classes coming up, and revsions likely for the GT classes. No better time than now to start to get everyone (IMSA, NASCAR/GA, FIA/ACO) on the same page to take advantage of something that hasn't happened much in the past--America and Europe being on the same page with the rules. Grand Am has gone their own way, to their detriment. ALMS has diverged from the ACO's rules, to their detriment, and even in the '80s, when IMSA and the FIA/ACO couldn't agree on the Group C regs, they stayed closer than the same parties have been since then, and both series flourished until bankrupting themselves in '92-'93.

It seems so simple: One broad set of rules that everyone in principal can at least agree on for the most part. Makes perfect logical and logsitical sense. But when has NASCAR, FIA, ACO, or in more recent times IMSA made perfect sense, or, for a better choice of words, much sense at all? But it goes back to global interdependence to build strong regional and world championship series, because WC's have tended to have trouble without at least a good regional series to feed or make up the numbers at big events.

I just think that it's an issue of everyone knowing where their opposite numbers' powers lie and their strengths and weaknesses. The FIA and ACO have the teams and money, but not much of an North American base. The ALMS and GA have the NA base, but not the teams or the money in the series. The ALMS have the cars, but not the marketing, while GA has the marketing, but not the product. If the ALMS, GA, and the WEC can with rules at least get on the same page and a strong US series results from it that can help with the WEC in NA, that can be a big plus, since it'll also have factory teams supporting it, something that sportscar racing in the US sorely needs.

However, even with all the positives I've highlighted, it has the potential to crash and burn like all sportscar series do every 10 years or so...

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

You're assuming BMW, Corvette, and Viper want to move their ALMS GT programs to the new series, though. And certainly they could. But it's also possible BMW will just say "DTM's good enough," Corvette will get more involved with the DP, and Viper will go to the WEC, or some combination therein.

SRT (part of the Fiat empire) can't promote themselves in the United States by racing at the FIA WEC. They must run a North American championship. The other options are very realistic, I admit.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

No, it is "get it."

It's auto racing. It's not driver racing. You can never argue that motorsport is not about the cars. Ever. You can argue about what makes exciting racing, to you, and that's an opinion. But the fact it's about the cars? Nope.

I'm not prepared for a world where the differentiating factors of a race are:

1. The driver's personality foremost.
2. The driver's driving second.

I enjoy racing decided by:

1. The design and performance of the cars.
2. The strategy.

I realize that's not for everyone. That's an opinion. But the cars are the stars? That's not, and anyone who is attending to see "Danica Patrick" or "Scott Pruett" isn't a racing fan at all. I don't care if you attend to see the Lola/Mazda, or if you attend to see a Corvette DP, or you attend to see a Car of Tomorrow, if you're there for the cars, you're there for the right reasons. The cars should race. The cars can't race when they get so overly regulated. Drivers racing? Couldn't care less, have them run a foot race, then, if we only care about them.

When people think of Formula 1 do they think of the McLaren MP4/5B or Ayrton Senna?

I read "I" and "I'm" so much in your comment it really grew tiring. In fact thats a common theme I'm seeing in these posts, alot of "I want" or "I hate". How about whats good for the health of sportscar racing in general?

The bashing of the DPs is growing tiring as well. They're not super fast because they werent designed to be superfast to save money. Same with reliability. How reliable are prototypes over a 24 hour race that dont have the budget for testing that Audi or Toyota has?

Funny how when the Le Mans Evo rules were first talked about and we all saw the Corvette prototype mockup that looked like a modern Corvette Daytona prototype nobody complained, in fact many cheered. Funny how now the same car looks "ugly" because its associated with the France family

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

Well there's an irony. Jumping down someone's throat for saying people who share his opinion "get it," proceeding to call your own opinion "sense."


.

No the 'sense' was being used against fallacies such as "ALMS GT cars are faster than DP" or "P2 costs as much as DP". Perhaps you should read and do research before making such a comment.

[NaBUru38]

Nice analysis, chernaudi. Manufacturers must be glad of this merger: they can focus their programmes and help the championship become major.