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29 Mar 2013, 11:38 (Ref:3226319) | #126 | ||
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I don't think so, they have too much fragile aerodynamic silliness. It makes them too sensitive to the leading car's wake, as in F1. They're even introducing DRS in a desperate bid to fix the issue. I don't think allowing some fender banging is going to help.
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have a nice diurnal anomaly... |
29 Mar 2013, 11:41 (Ref:3226320) | #127 | ||
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I think IndyCar can run itself into the ground quite successfully without the help of the France family.
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have a nice diurnal anomaly... |
29 Mar 2013, 11:56 (Ref:3226326) | #128 | |
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29 Mar 2013, 12:04 (Ref:3226329) | #129 | ||
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Why the heck does NASCAR need a DTM-style series to 'compete' with Indy? Why should they even care. Half empty grandstands at St. Petersburg with 16,000 seats and the usual ratings on NBCSN. With the crazy racing at the end of last week's race they're water cooler talk for at least another weekend. Indy meanwhile will be forum talk, that's about it...
Amazing that people are shocked motor racing is a dangerous sport. the last 20-30 laps of that race on Sunday were better than anything I've seen in the DTM since perhaps 2002. Americans will be wondering why the heck cars are randomly driving down the pit lane every ten laps if they keep up their current penalty system in the US version of DTM: No major contact unless you drive a Mercedes. Last edited by FordCosworthPanoz; 29 Mar 2013 at 12:09. |
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29 Mar 2013, 18:25 (Ref:3226519) | #130 | |||
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Otherwise dtm would be competing and possibly taking those things away from the new USCR which doesn't make much sense. |
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29 Mar 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3226524) | #131 | ||
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I see what you mean.
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29 Mar 2013, 21:33 (Ref:3226614) | #132 | ||
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30 Mar 2013, 13:09 (Ref:3226857) | #133 | |||
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have a nice diurnal anomaly... |
30 Mar 2013, 13:11 (Ref:3226858) | #134 | |
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For NASCAR it's a way to do business with manufacturers.
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30 Mar 2013, 13:21 (Ref:3226865) | #135 | ||
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Yes, but the teams? I would love to hear the pitch they'd have to make to sponsors:
"Yes, we want to do this new series, called DTM... Oh, it stands for some unpronounceable German thing." "No, it doesn't really have any fanbase here yet, no one's ever heard of it." "Yes, the cars are pretty expensive, you could get massive TV and media exposure with an Indy 500 or Nationwide entry, but this thing is really cool! It has a big wing, huge tires and makes a awesome sound!..." "No, not as good as the sports cars, IndyCars or stock cars, but it's still a great sound!" "What? How much? Well, we were thinking somewhere in the $ 4 million range for the season." "Yes, yes the same as IndyCar or Nationwide." "What's that? You want to do something more professional and potentially profitable? Oh, ok. How about Nationwide instead?" DTM North America just doesn't seem to make any sense. It's late to an already crowded party. |
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have a nice diurnal anomaly... |
30 Mar 2013, 14:47 (Ref:3226896) | #136 | |||
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Not difficult now, was it? What would they call the US series anyway? I think USTM would be quite a good name with a deference to the 'parent' series' name. Also, the DTM is run far more professionally. |
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30 Mar 2013, 15:05 (Ref:3226906) | #137 | |
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And the USTM would work as US Touringcar Masters without much of a stretch other than getting most people to understand what a 'Touring Car' is. I'm guessing Caddy would be behind this in a minute with a CTS-V and maybe moving the ATS(-V maybe) into WC or Conti challenge with the turbo 4. I would think they would want to push the USCR into more enduro events if this comes around, otherwise having a similar to GT series running only slightly shorter events could detract from the main event. And would the DTM bosses be ok with being a support series to USCR or NASCAR at their two Cup road course stops or Nationwide?
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30 Mar 2013, 15:46 (Ref:3226918) | #138 | |||
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No one uses the phrase touring car here, so USTM actually makes no sense, and how is the DTM run more professionally than NASCAR? The teams and crews are no more professional, and the sanctioning body is both less concerned about the fans and has less authority vis a vis the participants, so how is it more professional? |
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30 Mar 2013, 15:48 (Ref:3226920) | #139 | |
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Despite yes or no local interest the Germans want to spend money, NASCAR should turn them away?
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30 Mar 2013, 15:58 (Ref:3226924) | #140 | |||
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And would Audi, Mercedes and BMW be willing to spend $18-24 million for a racing series with little return on marketing value. That kind of money buys a whole lot of advertising at the Superbowl and other media venues with a much clearer ROI. As I said there are already at least 3 if not 4 series requiring the same budget levels, so where, in this economically fragile time is the money going to come from? No money, no racing. |
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30 Mar 2013, 16:08 (Ref:3226928) | #141 | ||
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Here's more info about the series.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/29/g...-racing-to-us/ But unless the domestic manufacturers enter, the series will definitely struggle a lot more. Unless all the other "non-domestics" band together to support. As well, the market position of the cars aren't helping. More people can afford a Focus, Civic, etc.. (as raced in the S2000) than a MB/BMW (as raced in the DTM). |
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Supertouring Forever and Ever... |
31 Mar 2013, 03:21 (Ref:3227102) | #142 | |||
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Quote:
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31 Mar 2013, 21:12 (Ref:3227380) | #143 | ||
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
4 Apr 2013, 13:37 (Ref:3229095) | #144 | |||
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Marshall Pruett has interviewed Ed Bennett about the DTM America.
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The Argentine TC2000 has 6 manufacturers now, totalling 19 cars (a few are pay drivers). It's a thin balance. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
4 Apr 2013, 13:40 (Ref:3229102) | #145 | ||
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A question: if DTM cars are spec, why are they so expensive in contrast with a GT3>
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
4 Apr 2013, 17:01 (Ref:3229204) | #146 | |||
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Quote:
The limited production runs of the chassis and other parts wouldn't help though. Do DTM teams but the cars thought? Do they lease them from the manufacturers? What exactly is the business model? To me, I just don't see a viable one in North America. After reading the interview, I see that Grand-Am don't have the answers either. They're being public with the process but also making the case that this will only come together if manufacturers all step up and get involved and agree to it. The other interesting thing is the parallel he drew with NASCAR. This is quite close to the NASCAR model in many ways, and so may be a better fit with NASCAR's expertise and abilities than the traditional sports cars of Grand-Am/USCR. And it is true, the DTM model fits better with the personality and rivalry driven story telling of touring car racing than the more layered, multi-class world of sports cars. But the cars are still lousy unless someone gets them to see reason with their aerodynamics. Last edited by juicy sushi; 4 Apr 2013 at 17:09. |
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4 Apr 2013, 17:33 (Ref:3229217) | #147 | |
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They have spec parts (e.g. tub, gearbox and rear wing) but other parts are designed by the manufaturers (e.g. suspension, aero, engine).
Last edited by FIRE; 4 Apr 2013 at 17:39. |
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7 Apr 2013, 04:37 (Ref:3230175) | #148 | ||
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I don't think that aero is not a spec part. Look at new cars - all the vents and their location are almost the same. And the shape of the car is almost the same. Not mentioning spec splitter, diffuser and wing.
I think most of cash flows into weight-fight. I've read RE where they say that DTM wanted to use more details from road-going cars but in that case they've got some 100 or 200 kg over the limit, so they had to use some expensive lightweight details. As for personalities I totally agree. Today DTM cars are not interesting from engineering point of view. They are almost spec-cars. So, in the future World championship for drivers can be organized on the base of DTM, American DTM and Super GT, as cars are almost the same. And it would be a way more fair than F1. |
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ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
13 May 2013, 04:17 (Ref:3246524) | #149 | |||
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Since then, afaik, BMW/MB/Audi own the cars and they commission teams to run them. So even if you have money, they may not sell you a car. |
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Supertouring Forever and Ever... |
13 Jul 2013, 11:58 (Ref:3277294) | #150 | ||
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