March 73B - 74B - 75B - 76B - 77B

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

76B-20 is for sale .....stated 12 races from new

I bet I can count more than 12 races I saw it in

[driftwood]

I was there today getting tyres fitted to my lola wheels
saw a few march tubs became a bore and took fotos of front slopes ( yes i need to get out more !! ) i saw 712 is dead flat and 76B car has small slope at the front say 2 inch max-i will look at my 742 tub tomorow
the 742 racing didnt have nose off but i was discussing his misfire problem so was suitably distracted !!
saw strettons totally F#@KD 712 CAR AFTER HE TREID TO POLE VAULT ANOTHER CAR IN QUALIFYING!
but at least he has a spare car to swap engine gbox over into- his tub has creases in places the would make the panel man wince

looking at the fotos Musetti car looks like its going to be 742 car with 752 body rear wing has centre pole into end cover of gbox as opposed to basket
bodywork is an easy upgrade drop onto chassis

752 nose on mathers car is different to musetti 75 nose so from this angle foto i cant tell if it ha sthe cut out cockpit into nose or is a straight cut across nose/cockpit section ie the 742 has
cockpits on 752 cars are correct 75 parts

[driftwood]

76B 20 is still owned by smiffy- u dont expect a kiwi to tell u the truth do u?

[Bryan Miller]

Another alteration between Musseti's 74B / 742 , and his 752 is the re-location of the dry sump tank and probably also the style, the 74B/742 is cylindrical and sits in what is known as the ''monster bracket'', don't laugh even the March drawings refer to it as such , and this sits centreline under the rear wing hung off the FT200, the 752 is tapered and sits inbetween the rhs of the gearbox and the rear wheel, expensive exercise for little gain .

Mather's car , the sidepods/deformable structures are unlike any I have seen except the 772 type.
Also the rear wing seems to be supported by the Modus style twin plate arrangement , and whilst the wing may well be March the mount isn't .
If any of these cars looks like a bitsa it is this one.

David , that is why I said '' stated''.

Bryan.

[driftwood]

monster bracket or basket re rear wing oil tank frame
732 is different to 742 frames look the same till u fit to thecar

later march cars had oil tank behind roll hoop in front of engine just like the 712 car had
maybe march slung it out the back for the longer bmw m12 motor??

also the side crush sid epods for f2 and B cars look the same but small subtle difference in the mounting bolts
the B has the cut out and i believe f2 doesnt
but im waiting to be corrected
i only make that comment cos i have 3 pods and 1 is different!

[allenbrown]

To recap the Musetti business, he crashes a car in practice at the GP meeting July 1975 and Autosport says he rushes home and builds up his "old" tub in time for the race. Then, in December 1975, he fits a Swindon to "his March" and then runs it as a 752 in 1976. By early/mid 1976 he has two cars, one Atlantic and one F2.

What we don't (yet) know is where the second tub/car comes from. The implication is that is retubs his March at some point in the first half of 1975 but then the original tub is also built up into a car giving him two cars. Exactly which one is then the ex-73B and which one is the other one is proving hard to figure out.

Allen

[driftwood]

i reckon u will only get these answers from the horses mouth or the spanner man of the day- does he still have the ice cream parlour?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Musetti's "74B" at Snetterton March 1975


Musetti's "752" at Mallory March 1976

To narrow the gap between these two cars a little, the one that Musetti races in a libre at Brands on 16 Nov 1975 looks just like the first of these two cars. His next appearance is at Brands again on Boxing Day and then he has the 2-litre car. I bought the program to that Boxing Day race this afternoon and Musetti entered his car as a 1600cc March 75B, not as a 2-litre. The first time he's pictured in 1976 is at the MCD Open round at Oulton on 7 March and the car looks like the bottom photo.

A couple more clues emerge later into 1976. Walkinshaw borrows the March for a F2 race at the Nurburgring the week after Thruxton. MT refers to it as 742 in the MN report but on the grid, where he tends to put the most detail, calls it a 74B. (F1R call it 74B/U1 when Val tries it out at the Thruxton F2 race, 742-U1 when it appears in G8 and then 752/15 at the Nurburgring!)

Chris - does Val actually race an Atlantic in 1976? I can't see him in Indylantic but maybe I haven't looked hard enough. And I recall you mentioning an article (in MN?) that said Val had two cars - do you have a note of the date of that article so I can have a read?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Sorry, an error and an omission in that last post but my 10 minutes to edit it has elapsed.

The error: it's not the Open round in March where Val is pictured but the one in April. So Ted's picture is actually the earliest one I have in 1976.

The omission: Motoring News reports on a libre at Thruxton (11 Mar 1976 p8) where it says "Val Musetti's ex-Henton March 752 Swindon BDX was on pole". Ex-Henton?! That's new. Flicking back to the start of the 1975 F2 season, Henton's 752 was called chassis "P" by MN and "U1P" by AS. The deal to run Henton seems to have been a last minute affair and the chassis was only completed the night before. It went pretty well in 1975 until Ertl crashed into it at Mugello in July after which Henton's only appearance was in the Wheatcroft at Silverstone.

A wide tub 752 makes a big difference of course, as the NZ car was said to be a 742 and I'm sure someone would have noticed if it didn't have a narrow tub. If this is right, the car in NZ must have been the one that began life with Matthews and Wood must have got the ex-Henton 752.

So is this what we've been searching for? Or is Chris just about to pour cold water over me?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Damn, blast and expletive deleted! Don't worry Chris, I'll pour the cold water over it myself.

Richard Robarts had 752/P in 1976. So Musetti can't have done.

And ... both Musetti's Marchs ran at Nurburgring on 2 May 1976 - Musetti himself in what MT calls a "March 742" and Walkinshaw in a "March 74B". So are we looking for an ex-Henton 742? Sorry, I can't summon the will...

Oh, by the way, the Boxing Day Brands program write-up on the libre race says that Musetti has put a F2 Swindon engine in his Atlantic March. Maybe that might help one day...

[driftwood]

allen may i be so bold as to repeat my earlier comment that you need to ask val or his spanner man these questions- it will save you time and get you more answers on things
You must appreciate that back in 75 ish it didnt matter to them what the car was they made fixed swapped over car parts to get to the next race so when the scribe asked them what the car was they may have been given half the real answer and the scribe man an assumption on another part of the cars spec ( assuming he was at the meeting not getting a report 3rd hand form his mates!! ) and reading 12 months of AS race reports and editorial reports to get the info is going to take time and get you all worked up ( and confused)

[allenbrown]

Couldn't agree more. Chris has been trying to get hold of Musetti through his film business links but has not yet been successful. Dave Price looked after Musetti's 761 a year or two later but I don't know who his spanner man was in 1975/76. The chance of Dave Price remembering seem slim as running Val Musetti was not exactly the high point of his career but I'll take your advice and give him a call when I get back from holiday. Assuming I've regained the will by then.

[driftwood]

WHAT ABOUT THE ICE CREAM PARLOUR BIZ?
ITS WORTH ASKING dpr FOR INFO-MAYBE THE SPANNER MAN IS AROUND

[Dan Rear]

Allen, Val M I'm sure didn't do any Indylantic in 76. He was out in the 'British Open', which series I think he won, usually against fairly low quality opposition, usually only John Wingfield's F2 RT1, and sometimes the Whiting/Galicia TS16, plus sundry other Libre stuff.

Also of course, the G8 series where he started in the 'F2 March', and later got the ex-Walkinshaw 752GA. He gradually revised the latter thru' 76-77, and called it a '761' for the Aurora races in 1978. I don't think he ever had a real 761, tho' he did get the 781 for early 1979 Aurora.

[Dan Rear]

Scouring some '75 A/Sports, I see Rick Whyman crop in some mid-75 Libre races in a March of some description. Any ideas, as this would be before he went pretty well in FF1600 ??

[allenbrown]

You've got good eyesight! I thought I'd looked at 1975 pretty closely and I only found him once - in fifth place at Rufforth 31 August. Where else have you spotted him?

[driftwood]

Is the 75A march the Ga engine car in Thursdays livery?- thats now in usa racing
Guy edwards had Ultramar liveried car was that 76 or 75A?

I have heard back from Roger Orgee on his Lyncar & march cars (AB shall i post that info now or later after u have looked throught it all?) also have b48 info to load up as well to get u guys going !!
How many 781 cars where built?

[allenbrown]

75A in US? No, I don't think it is
Ultramar car? That was the 75A but with a 761 tub for 1977
Post the Orgee stuff? Please do, I've only covered off the Lyncar
How many 781s? Two. Why?

[Dan Rear]

IIRC the 75A was based on a 751 tub, used by Jones in Thursdays colours in 1975. Magee/Hexagon had it for most of 1976 in white, then back to RAM for Edwards in 1977 in Titbits/MD4 livery. All this time with a 3.4 GA.

Edwards then put a DFV in for 1978 in Aurora, I think it was then called a 751ie back to what it had been originally! Used by Allison too that year, after the team got the 2 781s. After that I think it went sprinting with Terry Smith perhaps ???

[allenbrown]

Yes, that's basically right but the 75A was rebuilt by March using a redundant 761 tub over the 1976/77 close season.

It acquired the DFV in July 1977, in time for the July Mallory.

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

You've got good eyesight! I thought I'd looked at 1975 pretty closely and I only found him once - in fifth place at Rufforth 31 August. Where else have you spotted him?

OTOH a Cadwell Libre, around that time. Will check tonight !!

[driftwood]

Allen the thursdays 75A GA car is in usa saw it BRICS 03 either that im blind!
So yr saying 75A (thursdays) car is the Edwards blue n yella 76 car ( sans 761 tub) but in 75 body plate etc
There is 1 76A GA car running sporadically in the uk with the Barry brothers
is that the ONLY 76A car and the thursday/edwards car is the ONLy 75A ga
f5000 car?

March 781`s was just curious wonderedif i could go and makea new car claim some FIA papers make a fortune ripping someone off with another F1 march fake-seems others do it so why cant I!!

[allenbrown]

because you're too honest

[allenbrown]

There is a car in the US that claims to be the 75A - you didn't imagine it - but I really don't think that car actually is the 75A. Call it a hunch.

To digress further OT, do you happen to know where the ex-Roy Lane, ex-Ken Ayers, ex-Paul Edwards March/Lyncar 79S is today?

[driftwood]

allen yr right im too honest however i dont tell her indoors what the cars cost to rebuild!
the 79S car is this the sprint car with dfv motor 781 tub 792 looking bodywork
yes i know where it is wanna buy it!

re 75a in usa send me mail as to yr hunch
will post other info later its on office pc