[Team] US F1

[Marbot]

The silence was deliberate apparently.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80684

[nkh]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The silence was deliberate apparently.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80684

It's always fun to read old interviews

autosport.com - Exclusive interview with USF1's Peter Windsor

Our race facility is going to be completely fan-friendly from day one; they will be able to come around whenever they want, we'll have a tour area around the whole thing. We're going to be very visual in the way we do the team, it is going to be very television-orientated from day one, we're going to have webcams all around the factory showing live pictures of what is going on at any stage and you will be able to log on to a website at any point and say, ‘oh wow, they are about to do the tub now, they are about to put the two pieces together', or 'they are going to finalise the design of the front wishbone, let's see how that is being done'.

That is going to be on 24/7. We believe that the technology that Formula One has is a unique property – no other form of motorsport requires you to design and build your own car before you even turn a wheel. And because Formula One has that fantastic side to it, there is no reason why that technology shouldn't be totally available to the public for them to enjoy and understand.

[shiny side up!]

On Saward's blog today, he suggests that USF1 offered Ralf Schumacher a drive for 2010 (which Ralf turned down)... if this is true, they must not be very serious about F1 at all!

[Bononi]

Oh man... are they really serious.

[Marbot]

What I can't believe is that Ralf turned it down.

[nobster]

Ralf Schumacher, you mean the great driver who just has had two brilliant years in DTM???

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by nkh

It's always fun to read old interviews

autosport.com - Exclusive interview with USF1's Peter Windsor

The layout of the USF1 headquarters does not lend itself well to a stickybeak public looking at its sheds. There are no windows to internal corridors from the look of the pics shared on their video.

I want a USF1 toaster!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by nobster

Ralf Schumacher, you mean the great driver who just has had two brilliant years in DTM???

Article here

Originally Posted by The Article

Ralf Schumacher said: "With Mercedes in the DTM I feel very good, but I am sure I would get right back up to speed in a Formula One car."

Hmmmm... "right back up to speed" Didnt happen at Jordan or Toyota and the like...

[old man]

Did anybody else, like me, try showing the "brilliant" USF1 cartoons to others at Christmas? Are we very introverted on this website?!!!

[Mekola]

José Mar�*a López will return to formula racing today since 2007, in a Sudam F3 car. The Argentinian will test a Dallara F309-Berta of team Cesario today and tomorrow, at the Termas de R�*o Hondo autodrome.

[RaceFreak]

'Whole lotta speculation re: USF1 these days. PW has been in F1 for many years and hangs his reputation out further with each day of silence. But now that I think about it......................

Certainly CosWorth has their engine dimensions digitized. The car is designed in a computer not much more sophisticated than what you're using now. You send the design out to a sub who does the computational fluid analysis on a Cray supercomputer, then you tweak your body shape until you're happy. Computational crash analysis is 'prolly done in a Cray as well; and 99% of the time gives you a high degree of confidence of passing the "actual hardware" crash tests by the FIA. You email the resultant out to another sub whose computer whittles out the molds, then to another sub who lays out the CF and runs it through the autoclave.

Notice that, to this point, no real hardware is necessary at the 'factory'.

Engine, transaxle,suspension, radiators, electronics et al are all done by other guys. They essentially arrive at the factory in a box ready for assembly. You stick the car together and go test. Maybe 2 weeks of assembly. (OK, testing/integration is a whole different matter. I'm addressing the absence of hardware at the plant in the US)

This entire process is in use at Boeing today on the 787 line. Despite their problems it is clear that "Boeing" does little of the actual metal cutting. They just stick the parts together. USF1 is on a far smaller scale, but along the same lines of thought.

Maybe that's why we have yet to see hardware. 'Least I hope to God that's the case......

[Peralta]

Originally Posted by RaceFreak

'Whole lotta speculation re: USF1 these days. PW has been in F1 for many years and hangs his reputation out further with each day of silence. But now that I think about it......................

Certainly CosWorth has their engine dimensions digitized. The car is designed in a computer not much more sophisticated than what you're using now. You send the design out to a sub who does the computational fluid analysis on a Cray supercomputer, then you tweak your body shape until you're happy. Computational crash analysis is 'prolly done in a Cray as well; and 99% of the time gives you a high degree of confidence of passing the "actual hardware" crash tests by the FIA. You email the resultant out to another sub whose computer whittles out the molds, then to another sub who lays out the CF and runs it through the autoclave.

Notice that, to this point, no real hardware is necessary at the 'factory'.

Engine, transaxle,suspension, radiators, electronics et al are all done by other guys. They essentially arrive at the factory in a box ready for assembly. You stick the car together and go test. Maybe 2 weeks of assembly. (OK, testing/integration is a whole different matter. I'm addressing the absence of hardware at the plant in the US)

This entire process is in use at Boeing today on the 787 line. Despite their problems it is clear that "Boeing" does little of the actual metal cutting. They just stick the parts together. USF1 is on a far smaller scale, but along the same lines of thought.

Maybe that's why we have yet to see hardware. 'Least I hope to God that's the case......

The Boeing 787 was 2 years behind schedule. Let's hope to God that's not the case here.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peralta

The Boeing 787 was 2 years behind schedule. Let's hope to God that's not the case here.

My impression is that Boeing's problem with the 787 was the sub-contractors were not keeping to the schedule. Boeing's solution seems to have been to buy up many of them so that they can directly manage them.

But your point is well taken and when you use this method you have to trust that your sub-contractors are not going to burn you.

What I think might be different about USF1 is that it sounds like they are not relying upon sub-contractors so much for large components (such as Boeing's 787 wings, body, etc. are produced in different companies at different locations than where final assembly takes place), but they are mostly looking to use local third parties for things such as full scale aero testing, shaker rigs, etc. So there is nothing really this third party has to "deliver" (they are testing resources not deliverable components) that can go wrong. The main issue is just making sure that everyone’s schedules are in sync. Where I see this going wrong is if you reserve dates in advance with your third party tester and then your schedule slips you may have issues with ensuring they can still fit you in when you want to reschedule. Teams with these resources in-house don’t have this issue, but they have to deal with the extra cost for the convenience.

Time will tell if this strategy works out, but I think it has merits. Especially in a new era where the money looks like it will not quite flow as easily as in the past. You don’t have progress unless someone tries something new.

[Tourer]

There's actually nothing new about doing it this way. It is going back to the way some F1 teams and most sportscar, lower formula teams used to operate in the UK & elsewhere - many lower formula etc teams still do.

One of the big benefits of running a team in the UK was access to all the specialist sub contractors (including wind tunnel etc) so that the overheads of the core team could be kept under control. By all reports Charlotte has a similar benefit.

Provided that they've got the coordination of everything nailed down, no reason why it shouldn't work and properly managed it can allow a team to develop designs and components very quickly.

[Marbot]

US F1 are possibly operating in a similar way to Virgin. Virgins team HQ are based in the North of England, but all the technical facilities are based in the South of England. US F1 also say that they are using only CFD to design their cars as are Virgin.

Virgin are also out-sourcing to other companies for specific items for the car, which will be fully assembled at the team HQ in the North of England and from there will be transported to the races.

[shiny side up!]

Originally Posted by Marbot

US F1 also say that they are using only CFD to design their cars as are Virgin.

Really? I don't recall reading that. Would be an interesting position to take considering Anderson's role in the WindShear tunnel in Charlotte. Nothing suprises about USF1 at this point, though.

[jab]

What was actually said is that they were designing the car with CFD and then only using the windtunnel to test the full car rather than scale models, which is different from what Wirth are doing as they aren't using a windtunnel at all

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Marbot

US F1 are possibly operating in a similar way to Virgin. Virgins team HQ are based in the North of England, but all the technical facilities are based in the South of England. US F1 also say that they are using only CFD to design their cars as are Virgin.

Virgin are also out-sourcing to other companies for specific items for the car, which will be fully assembled at the team HQ in the North of England and from there will be transported to the races.

No, they aren't. Again, nice try, but they have this thing called the Windshear wind tunnel, you might have heard of it, that was the entire driving force behind the project.

[veeten]

Originally Posted by jab

What was actually said is that they were designing the car with CFD and then only using the windtunnel to test the full car rather than scale models, which is different from what Wirth are doing as they aren't using a windtunnel at all

Exactly, as this is a method that reduces the amount of re-scalling when using smaller models, thus reduces time & cost when developing updated pieces as the season goes on.

Wirth is doing every aspect in computerization, which would eliminate the need for a windtunnel altogether as well as the need for models and mockups. Just transfer directly to manufacture and install.

[Marbot]

Peter Windsor, the other day..

"I noticed the other day that Nick Wirth issued a press release about the new Virgin F1 car being entirely designed on CFD – Computational Fluid Dynamics (rather than in the wind tunnel)," he said.

"The same thing applies to our car, although we see this as a logical process for a new team rather than something about which to be particularly excited. There’s no doubt, though, that the rhythm of life is now different, having worked for both Williams and Ferrari I have no hesitation in saying that."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80684

Err, yeah. Whatever.

I stand by my saying that the car was/will be entirely designed by CFD.

[DanShenise]

They won't have a physical model of the car ready to do any worthwhile reseach on it, so this year's car is all CFD. PW did acknowledge that in the future they will be using the Windshear tunnel, but there isn't the time this year. Makes sense as it costs money to rent the tunnel and if you aren't going to useful data on this year's car, why bother. I would assume sold backmarker status this year and then next year they should start climbing up a bit. Honestly, I expect the best they will achieve will be about the same as Jordan circa 1999-2001.

[Peralta]

I read somewhere and I don't have the link but for this year 2010 full scale wind tunnel testing will be banned so maybe CFD is where F1 is headed. If USF1 make the grid that is an achievement already. They do need some experienced drivers to develop the car so a Villenueve and Wurz or De La Rosa sound like good choices to me.

[Marbot]

I think you can do 4 hours in one 24 hour period of full scale wind-tunnel tesing in lieu of 1 day of the 8 days provided for straight line aero testing. So that's 36 hours total if you don't do the straight line aero testing. All other wind-tunnel testing is done on 60% scale models.

[Chiefy]

Originally Posted by Peralta

I read somewhere and I don't have the link but for this year 2010 full scale wind tunnel testing will be banned so maybe CFD is where F1 is headed. If USF1 make the grid that is an achievement already. They do need some experienced drivers to develop the car so a Villenueve and Wurz or De La Rosa sound like good choices to me.

These guys are all getting on a bit with little recent race experience in Formula One, though. I thought Senna might have been a good buy for the team and Bourdais has a lot of stature in North America... But one is taken and the other probably won't be back. If you look at it as an exercise in getting the best drivers available - rather than the best Americans available - then Heidfeld should be top of the shopping list. I can't believe he hasn't been snapped up yet.

[Richard C]

I don't know much about the topic of aero design and testing, but couldn't they be doing the car on CFD and then using full scale wind tunnel testing at the very end to generate the aero map as well as validate what the CFD is telling them? I guess they could also evaluate various tweaks in the tunnel to see which of the various CFD solutions work best? This results in a car that is pretty much designed by CFD and then validated in the tunnel at the end of the process?