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6 Apr 2013, 21:53 (Ref:3230080) | #126 | ||
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I want to see racing drivers actually RACING to the end of the race. That's the whole point of it. I want to see that, not a boring demonstration of pointless team orders. |
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6 Apr 2013, 22:38 (Ref:3230094) | #127 | ||
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I was going to suggest you watch another branch of motorsport instead, but as I can't think of one that would match your criteria.
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6 Apr 2013, 22:43 (Ref:3230096) | #128 | ||
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6 Apr 2013, 22:43 (Ref:3230097) | #129 | ||
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Since at least the era of Moss and that era didn't invent it. The definition of sportsmanlike is one that involves not being self centred and winning isn't everything. While maybe the word 'orders' doesn't fit 'team' most certainly does. You only need orders if you have individuals who don't act as a team.
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6 Apr 2013, 22:51 (Ref:3230102) | #130 | |||
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6 Apr 2013, 23:17 (Ref:3230106) | #131 | |||
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So tough poo Mark, but that's racing. Deal with it and come back stronger next time. Quote:
I've never been the biggest McLaren fan, but I have to hand it to them, when JB and Lewis were team mates, they let them race. There were several times it could've ended in a crash for one or both, but didn't. Think of Turkey '10, Turkey '11 or more recently, Brazil '12. You fight to the bell in boxing. You race to the chequered flag in motorsport, not any time before. Otherwise, what's the point in even having a bleeding race if they've decided who is going to finish where before the race is even over? If that's the case, might as well just give the points out after quali, then pack up and go home. It'd save an awful lot of money. |
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6 Apr 2013, 23:40 (Ref:3230112) | #132 | ||
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So, all you "Team Orders" fans, how many of you watch NASCAR? How about the "lead changes" that occur amongst NASCAR teammates, when the leader slows to let his mate "earn" the extra points for "leading" a lap? Does that also fit your criteria of "sportsmanship"?
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7 Apr 2013, 01:34 (Ref:3230139) | #133 | |||
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It comes down to this. A man lives up to the agreements he enters into. By signing up to Red Bull SV accepted the authority of the team. SV broke this agreement and undermined the authority of the team who worked to give him his car. In doing so he robbed Webber who lived up to his agreement with the team - an agreement Webber didn't abandon. That's why SV invites the criticism that he does atm. |
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7 Apr 2013, 09:32 (Ref:3230273) | #134 | |||
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7 Apr 2013, 09:46 (Ref:3230281) | #135 | |||
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7 Apr 2013, 09:57 (Ref:3230286) | #136 | ||
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Not how I remembered it and Herbert backed that up on the F1 show. Oh well.
I am still less than convinced it was similar. Not least due to the actions afterwards, the result, the lead up to the attempted pass and the answers to questions afterwards. Any multi 12? Still as it was the same then Webber should have stayed behind. As for vilifying Vettel? If I explain how much I like Vettel and how much I like Webber would that help? Shouldn't really make a difference to my opinion on Vettels actions during the latest GP. If the argument is that both did something wrong I'm fine with that. What a team. |
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7 Apr 2013, 10:02 (Ref:3230290) | #137 | |
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I don't know if you have vilified Vettel. I just mean that, on balance, people are calling him out for this and defending Mark when Mark has clearly shown he would do exactly the same.
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7 Apr 2013, 10:28 (Ref:3230305) | #138 | ||
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If he was quick enough.
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7 Apr 2013, 10:45 (Ref:3230312) | #139 | ||
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In the light of that Silverstone press conference I find Webber's response hypocritical.
But maybe there were new agreements in place before the Malaysia GP Vettel's disregard of which led to Webber feeling betrayed and Vettel being compelled to apologize. |
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7 Apr 2013, 11:17 (Ref:3230322) | #140 | ||
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7 Apr 2013, 15:30 (Ref:3230413) | #141 | ||
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That's half of Australia turning in their sleep with that comment.
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And that is one of most major causes of the bitter taste residue - that he wouldn't admit he had thought of "number 1" in the moment and instead chose to deliver some confusing claptrap about hearing the message but not realising he was disobeying it or whatever it was. |
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7 Apr 2013, 17:02 (Ref:3230453) | #142 | ||
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Exactly so - and this is the point that so many here seem determined to ignore, preferring instead to mask the situation with blather about team orders and how dreadful they are.......
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7 Apr 2013, 19:14 (Ref:3230505) | #143 | |||
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I think, unless I'm missing some massive point in this conversation, that Vettel said he was truthfully sorry and will obey team orders from this point. He's really been under the gun as of late. Here's something I wrote about him immediately after the race:
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...he said he's sorry, that's all he has to do. Horner's serious about it now, and he (Vettel) knows he can't do it again. Not much more to discuss... |
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7 Apr 2013, 19:33 (Ref:3230517) | #144 | ||
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Don't you hold back now Beetle............
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280 days...... |
7 Apr 2013, 19:38 (Ref:3230520) | #145 | ||
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8 Apr 2013, 18:01 (Ref:3231044) | #146 | |
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What annoys me is that the teams can control or attempt to control races, it will be interesting to see how far this goes this year and what reaction it receives from the fans.
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8 Apr 2013, 18:07 (Ref:3231046) | #147 | ||
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Sadly, if the fans of which you speak, are knowledgeable and thus born racers, they will already know that team orders are part of F1. If however, they are not fans, then who cares? They won't.
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8 Apr 2013, 20:15 (Ref:3231113) | #148 | |||
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You mean if it goes as far as last year, and the year before that, and ten years before that.....? |
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8 Apr 2013, 20:38 (Ref:3231130) | #149 | ||
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Is it going to go further than before? What could they do? Pull a car into the pits and let another driver take over after theirs has retired?
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8 Apr 2013, 21:03 (Ref:3231148) | #150 | |
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