Bernie Ecclestone says F1 be sold this year.

[S griffin]

I also would rather see more races in Europe, on proper circuits instead the concrete jungles with empty grandstands. I mean I feel it's a joke the pioneer of motor racing and Grand Prix racing France hasn't had a GP since 08. Only go to faraway races that are worth the trip

[Moneyseeker]

One thing that amazes me is Liberty paying so much for the FOM, but not actually having control over the 'product' they wish to 'monetize' and digitalize...

The reasoning is, I believe, that the yoof market is not enaged because BE won't let FOM tweet and allow clips on facebook/youtube, etc. But surely, actually the reason that youngsters don't watch F1 in sufficient numbers is that the races are too long, too predicatable and too (dare I say) boring, I honestly don't believe it is down to the media available.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

One thing that amazes me is Liberty paying so much for the FOM, but not actually having control over the 'product' they wish to 'monetize' and digitalize....

I cannot find the article at the moment, but it was quite clear from it that Liberty, although not taking full ownership of the commercial interests of F1, was to be granted full control over all aspects of the commercial side of F1 even though they will only own about 35% of the shares.

In one of the press releases from Liberty, they say that they aim to complete the first phase of the process (I think purchasing about 10% of the shares) by the end of the 1st quarter of 2017.

Plenty of time for mischief making.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I also would rather see more races in Europe, on proper circuits instead the concrete jungles with empty grandstands. I mean I feel it's a joke the pioneer of motor racing and Grand Prix racing France hasn't had a GP since 08. Only go to faraway races that are worth the trip

Yes the calendar would seriously benefit from a few more Euro races (naturally in key markets)

Germany will be secured, France back on, a Scandinavian round for starters.

There will be a major effort to add a couple more Anerican races in the next 3 years too.

[Richard C]

Liberty may be looking to allow events to stand on their own feet vs. looking for deep pockets (government money) to fund events in locations that don't seem to fill the seats at the actual track. Lower the prices to fill the seats, let a promoter make some profit and then they skim some off the top for themselves. And the fastest way to do this would be to expand the number of events in a market where the product is already known such as... Europe! Shocking concept!

With that being said... that is also why I am skeptical they would do a big push early on to get more exposure in the US. I tend to think they may try to make the existing US GP profitable (or at least less expensive for the host track) and then once that is healthy, consider more events in the Americas (North, Central or South)

Time will tell if any of this is close to how they plan to do things. I can only dare to hope.

Richard

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Am I right in thinking Bernie/CVC pays for the teams travel costs?

BJ, I believe that the freight cost of the equipment is covered if the team scores a championship point in the previous year. Hence the big excitement when some of the lower order teams manage to score a point.

This arrangement was in place for the old 9,6,4,3,2,1 points system.

I am not sure how the increased points allocations affected this arrangement.

[TzeiTzei]

It's the top 10. For both money and freight. Bernie likes round numbers. Of course it means that sooner or later a team that keeps on finishing outside of the top 10 will run out of money.

[Kempi]

Investigations re. the Sauber/Force India complaint and merger control proceedings as (potentially) required for the takeover are two different things and not interconnected. The complaint and its possible outcome will however have been part of the M&A deal with warranties and such being agreed to cover the risks.

[Mike Harte]

An interesting article on PitPass by some people's least favourite journalist, although his pieces on the finances and structure of F1 are pretty well on the button.

It may well be some considerable time before Liberty are in a position to be permitted to take a controlling interest in F1, despite their continuous commentary about the possible future for the sport.

http://www.pitpass.com/57898/The-FIA...and-Prix-boost

[chillibowl]

thanks for the link Mike

an interpretation from everyones least fav F1 journo aside, it was still an interesting read.

this fact that the FIA also has a vested interest in extending the calendar via payments from the teams and drivers which are based on points scored (more races equals more points scored which equals more money for the FIA) and in reading that the new Liberty boss is talking up this benefit leaves me with the impression that this is all just business as usual for these guys.

how to squeeze more money out of F1 without much thought given to the quality of the racing that is being produced.

i suppose none of this comes as a surprise though.

[Mike Harte]

As you say, business as usual.

However, although Sylt quotes Liberty as saying that extra races financially benefits the teams, the teams are emphatically against more races and they have been quite vocal about that fact.

Paradoxically, FOM had to bribe the teams to run the 21st race, but they weren't happy with the situation. It is a huge strain on their race team workforce, and puts their home lives at risk, especially now as F1 teams no longer run two engineering squads as they used to do before testing was effectively banned.

If Liberty are serious about expanding the championship, and extending the length of each meeting, then I can only believe that the teams will be forced to run two squads again.

But by expanding Grand Prix racing, all they will be doing is devaluing the product. It will no longer be special, and will lose some of it's glamour.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

As you say, business as usual.

However, although Sylt quotes Liberty as saying that extra races financially benefits the teams, the teams are emphatically against more races and they have been quite vocal about that fact.

Paradoxically, FOM had to bribe the teams to run the 21st race, but they weren't happy with the situation. It is a huge strain on their race team workforce, and puts their home lives at risk, especially now as F1 teams no longer run two engineering squads as they used to do before testing was effectively banned.

If Liberty are serious about expanding the championship, and extending the length of each meeting, then I can only believe that the teams will be forced to run two squads again.

But by expanding Grand Prix racing, all they will be doing is devaluing the product. It will no longer be special, and will lose some of it's glamour.

More than 21 races. The article doesn't say how many more but 21 is sufficient. Maybe someone should remind Liberty this is F1 and not NASCAR and the series is global and not confined to the US.

I know exactly what you mean about Grand Prix racing being special. I personally think it has already lost some of what made it special. Churning out more races like a sausage machine, on not particularly interesting circuits and racing in countries who have no motorsports heritage isn't doing the sport any favours and is producing a rather bland, homogenised product. F1 doesn't need more of this.

[wolfhound]

After reading the pitpass article and assuming it came from sources close to BCE as Sylt's articles usually do, I am trying to figure out what is going on behind the scenes.

Does Bernie not want the sale to go through for some reason (He could end up heading to sign on at the unemployment office) or is he trying to get at Jean Todt as relations between them are usually not particularly good. Does Bernie resent having to pay the FIA fees to regulate the sport.
Some one has to pay for the FIA to do their part in running the sport!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Does Bernie not want the sale to go through for some reason

I don't think that BCE cares one way or another as he has said that he is not selling his shares anyway. So, no matter which way it goes, he will still get his dividends, and both CVC and Liberty need him, certainly in the short to medium term, as only he knows where all the bodies are buried and where the scary things in the cupboards are.

[Mike Harte]

There's another article on PitPass related to the intended sale. http://www.pitpass.com/57884/Liberty...elp-pay-for-F1

It would seem as though Liberty are hoping that the teams will help to pay the cash that CVC wants as part of the deal. Liberty will be paying only about 25% of the purchase price in cash, the rest will be in Liberty shares. This is because they don't have anywhere near enough liquid assets, and even then, they will either have to borrow money or raise it from the teams to get to that 25% point.

To my mind, this does not auger well for F1.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

There's another article on PitPass related to the intended sale. http://www.pitpass.com/57884/Liberty...elp-pay-for-F1

It would seem as though Liberty are hoping that the teams will help to pay the cash that CVC wants as part of the deal. Liberty will be paying only about 25% of the purchase price in cash, the rest will be in Liberty shares. This is because they don't have anywhere near enough liquid assets, and even then, they will either have to borrow money or raise it from the teams to get to that 25% point.

To my mind, this does not auger well for F1.

Oh dear Mike. It looks like the cracks in this deal are starting to appear already. I agree that this doesn't bode well for F1 and its future...

[S griffin]

In my view 21 is too many, 19 should be the limit IMHO. Just thinking about some of the places the calendar goes which add nothing, I just wish we had more places that did. I'd bring back France, the birthplace of motor racing, tomorrow

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Just thinking about some of the places the calendar goes which add nothing, I just wish we had more places that did. I'd bring back France, the birthplace of motor racing, tomorrow

Of course you would. But it's much easier said than done. Who would pay to build a new F1-grade track? Who would pay for the Grand Prix?

F1 is already a provincial eurocentric club, I'd say it would be wise to expand into new markets (markets with sizable fan potential like Korea, not oil-funded small markets) with proper marketing, tracks near population centers and affordable ticket prices, rather than retreating into a western European shell.

[Mike Harte]

But, Beryl, even Korea wasn't that popular with the fans, although admittedly the track was built in the wrong location. It was a huge trek from Seoul and the in the background was a Samsung shipyard. Having said that, huge crowds happily drive about 8 hours from Tokyo to spectate at Suzuka.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But, Beryl, even Korea wasn't that popular with the fans, although admittedly the track was built in the wrong location. It was a huge trek from Seoul and the in the background was a Samsung shipyard. Having said that, huge crowds happily drive about 8 hours from Tokyo to spectate at Suzuka.

F1 is long established in Japan and whatever fans are traveling 8 hours from Kanto are supplemented by locals from the Chukyo metro area. It's not comparable to the previous effort to establish F1 in Korea. A poorly marketed race in the middle of nowhere Korea isn't indicative of the F1 market potential in that country.

That said, F1 itself isn't in the best of shape to expand outwards right now, whether back to France or elsewhere is irrelevant. Even Germany and Hungary are struggling, two of the best supported races not too long ago, and I dread to think how popularity in Spain will plunge when Alonso retires. The product needs to be sorted and a better connection fans needs to be established before it becomes viable to build a new track in France or expand to new regions.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But, Beryl, even Korea wasn't that popular with the fans, although admittedly the track was built in the wrong location. It was a huge trek from Seoul and the in the background was a Samsung shipyard. Having said that, huge crowds happily drive about 8 hours from Tokyo to spectate at Suzuka.

Isn't/wasn't having Korea host a GP, just what is wrong with F1? A race for the sake of it, to big up the calendar and the sanction fee to match.

[Alan52]

India and Korea were disasters for F1.Mexico,Austin,Abu Dhabi and Singapore are new races that are good for F1.A return to traditional venues which many here advocate is code for making the calendar more Eurocentric which is not a great idea.
F1 must be intent on forcing Sepang out by twinning it with Singapore.Germany and Brazil might well be gone by 2018.Room for new events without increasing the number.
Every sport seems to increase the number of events to maintain or increase TV revenues which are their financial life blood.

[Sodemo]

I think more races are possible, you just have to start the season earlier, have more double-headers (and perhaps have a bigger break in the middle).

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think more races are possible, you just have to start the season earlier, have more double-headers (and perhaps have a bigger break in the middle).

Of course, anything is possible. But is it wanted or even desirable? I would firmly say no to both!

The season is already too long, and as I wrote earlier, extending the number of races just devalues the product. It no longer becomes special, and would therefore become less desirable to those that want to bathe in the "opulence".

That is just the view from a previously ardent fan of F1, having followed it for now for over 50 years. But what about it from the perspective of the teams and those that work for them. The team principals have fought to keep the calendar at 18 races, but have been badgered and finally bribed to accept 19, then 20, and now 21 races.

They don't like it because their staff don't either. Many of them signed on when there was no prospect of the season encompassing more than the 18 races, and they put up with it. That is why the summer break was introduced, so that the team's staff could finally relax for a three week period. But even back then it wasn't too bad because the teams ran two squads of engineers, caterers, PR staff and other people who travelled to the circuits. That has been stopped, and now many of the one the squad are away for pretty well 9 months of the year. It doesn't lead to happy families, especially young children who may not see more than fleeting glances of their mum or dad, before they rush off to the next race.

And even most of the drivers don't appreciate it. Yes, a few, no way near all, are very well compensated for being chosen to fulfil their life's' dream, But for that, most of them are at the beck and call of the team and their sponsors for 48 odd weeks a year. And as Jenson Button has said, he will be overjoyed to get his life back after next week in Abu Dhabi.

[bella]

from a business point of view, the biggest issue with expanding the calendar is mike's point about the loss of prestige. though that's just got me wondering exactly what prestige actually IS. maybe it's mostly the connection to the history of the sport, because you couldn't really call most of the venues prestigious. perhaps the demands that the circuits throw vast amounts of money at their facilities is an attempt to fix that, but in doing so you often distance yourself from the history?

the staff thing is kind of a moot point. if you've got into motorsport you're not going to be at home much, especially if you're in a single seater team with a kid who has a lot of money and wants to do a lot of testing. people either do f1 for years and years, or they do it for a few years for the money or to tick the box. where do you draw the line? f1 involves 200-250 days on the road. some areas of junior motorsport is very similar, especially during the winter testing season. there's areas of the teams where the on the road side of the job is shared between the department. for what it's worth the pay is pretty damn good for motorsport, you are paid well and you also don't have the time to spend it unless you've got a family at home.