[BTCC] Donington Park GP, 26/27 August, Rds. 22/23/24

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I don't think anyone particular like the tyre stacks but I've yet to hear a convincing argument for an alternative. High kerbs can be just as dangerous in getting a car airborne. Don't forget that most circuits are also used by bikes and generally the riders prefer to keep their knees and elbows attached.

Maybe you just remove the kerbs and gravel traps and ignore track limits completely. If you've ever watched NASCAR on a road course you'll know what an utter farce that becomes.

Exactly this; no one has been able to come up with a workable alternative in order to stop drivers straight-lining chicanes. I think that at one time Thruxton installed armco and I assume that it was not successful.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I don't think anyone particular like the tyre stacks but I've yet to hear a convincing argument for an alternative. High kerbs can be just as dangerous in getting a car airborne. Don't forget that most circuits are also used by bikes and generally the riders prefer to keep their knees and elbows attached.

Maybe you just remove the kerbs and gravel traps and ignore track limits completely. If you've ever watched NASCAR on a road course you'll know what an utter farce that becomes.

I think in the medium term it'll end up going down the lines of a technological solution. MSV already have cameras installed at most of their circuits. I believe enforcement is varied though and whilst they are used during the British GT meetings, I'm not aware of them being used for BTCC.

[Evantra]

Land mines would do the trick. Certainly add in some excitement. Health and safety might be less convinced

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I don't think anyone particular like the tyre stacks but I've yet to hear a convincing argument for an alternative. High kerbs can be just as dangerous in getting a car airborne. Don't forget that most circuits are also used by bikes and generally the riders prefer to keep their knees and elbows attached.

Maybe you just remove the kerbs and gravel traps and ignore track limits completely. If you've ever watched NASCAR on a road course you'll know what an utter farce that becomes.

I seem to remember a few years ago plastic bollards being used as a 'safe' track limits marker. All that happened with these was that they could simply be knocked clearly out of the way without causing any car damage, so generally by about the third lap, they'd all gone!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I seem to remember a few years ago plastic bollards being used as a 'safe' track limits marker. All that happened with these was that they could simply be knocked clearly out of the way without causing any car damage, so generally by about the third lap, they'd all gone!

If they were still in place on lap 3 then you weren't trying hard enough. Watching the coverage from Donington the ones at Starkey's Bridge and Coppice lasted about half a dozen cars before being launched into orbit.

[Sodemo]

Touring cars in particular will always try and jump over a kerb or bit of grass, for me it’s part of the appeal of the sport, less of an issue for single seaters as they don’t have the suspension travel or ground clearance.

[Greem]

According to a social media post from Sam Riches, someone nicked part of the RFID tyre scanning system on Saturday night between everyone leaving the pit lane and returning on Sunday.

There's no market for things like that. Inexplicable and really rather annoying.

[touringlegend]

If I’ve learned anything about touring car fans they’ll take any sort of old memorabilia that they can get, although stealing the tyre scanner is a bits stupid.

[Sodemo]

I have a number of old setup sheets from various cars that have been scanned.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

If I’ve learned anything about touring car fans they’ll take any sort of old memorabilia that they can get, although stealing the tyre scanner is a bits stupid.

A very odd thing to steal if you’re a fan, that’s not normal memorabilia.

It’s less odd to steal it if you need to circumvent the tyre rules. I can’t think of any other reason you’d want it to go missing.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

A very odd thing to steal if you’re a fan, that’s not normal memorabilia.

It’s less odd to steal it if you need to circumvent the tyre rules. I can’t think of any other reason you’d want it to go missing.

A you seriously suggesting a team stole it so they can cheat?!

[Robin Marriott]

Of course I’m not, I’m making no accusation at all, just saying in my own opinion, I can’t think of a single other reason for that particular equipment to go missing.

I’m a motorsport fan and collector of tat and I can’t see why a fan would take it, it’s worthless and uninteresting.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

I can’t think of a single other reason for that particular equipment to go missing.

Stupidity and / or alcohol!

[auroan]

I'm with Mike Hearte on the whole tyres thing. I race, and have raced for the last 8 years in club racing. People will take any liberty they can to get ahead. If they can get away with it.

You don't get away with it, with a tyre stack. And when you have to pay for your own damage (rather than sponsors paying in top tier), you soon stay away from them.

[cos]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

A you seriously suggesting a team stole it so they can cheat?!

Funnily enough, a Formula E team used such equipment earlier this year and got caught...
https://the-race.com/formula-e/ds-pe...tlane-scanner/

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by auroan

I'm with Mike Hearte on the whole tyres thing. I race, and have raced for the last 8 years in club racing. People will take any liberty they can to get ahead. If they can get away with it.

You don't get away with it, with a tyre stack. And when you have to pay for your own damage (rather than sponsors paying in top tier), you soon stay away from them.

Which is fine if the only reason for a car hitting a tyre stack is 100% the drivers fault but it isn't.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Which is fine if the only reason for a car hitting a tyre stack is 100% the drivers fault but it isn't.

Unfortunately, there are always going to be incidents during racing, and often it's the innocent who come worse off; for example, the Mini that we have been discussing.

However, I think that if tyre stacks and other means used to deter drivers from cutting corners and generally abusing track limits are removed , the potential for far more serious incidents will follow.

Part of the problem with tyre stacks is that drivers too often drive in the way that we see racing on the ovals; what I believe they call drafting. Well, that's fine on an oval where there are no impediments on the corners, but it can be highly dangerous on our circuits.

An example of this was the racing during the BTCC meeting at Croft last year. I was viewing the racing from a point directly at the side of the chicane. During the course of three races, the Minis (I think it was), the Porsches and the Ginettas, there were incidents involving drafting at the chicane and on each occasion, it was not the first car in the snake that hit the stack, but one of the following ones. The reason for this is so simple to understand; the drivers were unsighted. Even though they know that the stacks are there, they try to take a slightly tighter line to gain a tiny advantage but because they cannot see through the car in front, that slight variation in line ended up with them hitting the stack.

Incidents like that are not the fault of the stacks; they didn't jump out in front of the cars, the drivers were simply trying too hard.

The only alternative that I can think of is to make the curbs impossible to drive over, which they have sort of tried; the sausage curbs which proved to be even worse because, again drivers attempted to drive over. Maybe square edged curbs, as on normal roads, is the answer? I really don't know.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Of course I’m not, I’m making no accusation at all, just saying in my own opinion, I can’t think of a single other reason for that particular equipment to go missing.

I’m a motorsport fan and collector of tat and I can’t see why a fan would take it, it’s worthless and uninteresting.

There a picture floating around social media of someone walking off with some of the trackside KwikFit advertising banners and the Styrofoam corner boards. Don't be surprised at what some 'fans' will collect.

On a more serious note, it seems that Team Parker and possibly others had a load of tools taken from the paddock.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by redshoes

There a picture floating around social media of someone walking off with some of the trackside KwikFit advertising banners and the Styrofoam corner boards. Don't be surprised at what some 'fans' will collect.

On a more serious note, it seems that Team Parker and possibly others had a load of tools taken from the paddock.

When my son and I walked around the BTCC paddock at Oulton earlier this year, I was really surprised at how some of the teams, not necessarily the BTCC ones, took almost no precautions about the security of their property. We walked around during the break, and there were quite a few of the teams' area that were left unattended with all their tools open and equipment on display.

[coffinpilot]

Interesting in the Dan Lloyd vlog on Youtube from Donington that he mentioned he hadn't put vlogs up because of a headache over money over the last couple of months - not that he hasn't raised it - but that kind of suggests that he's been asked for more than he kicked the season off with expecting to spend.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Interesting in the Dan Lloyd vlog on Youtube from Donington that he mentioned he hadn't put vlogs up because of a headache over money over the last couple of months - not that he hasn't raised it - but that kind of suggests that he's been asked for more than he kicked the season off with expecting to spend.

He also said he will finish the season, but end up in debt, which also backs up that point.

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by Evantra

He also said he will finish the season, but end up in debt, which also backs up that point.

Judging by the rumour mill he won't start 2024 with the debt that Team HARD seem to be building up.....

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Judging by the rumour mill he won't start 2024 with the debt that Team HARD seem to be building up.....

Yeah, I'm sad to say this, but unless Lloyd finds a big partner (like Jake Hill who also had numerous financial issues before Blundell started supporting him) his BTCC career will not last long. It's sad as he's a clearly talented guy.

[antnee]

The way to solve track limits is to just go drag racing. Remove the corners, remove the problem

[antnee]

On a serious note though, I think tyre stacks work quite well. Heavy enough to cause damage to the cars without being so heavy/rigid that it would cause serious harm to a driver. If there was an easy alternative, it would be used already. I'm sure some circuits have tried removeable sections of sausage curbs (ie removed when bikes are on circuit) but had issues with them coming loose - plus these are even harder to see than a tyre stack that is as high as the cars