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17 Apr 2023, 08:07 (Ref:4151944) | #1476 | |
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Yes, there shouldn't be too much difference with the tech compared to last year, so it's a bit of a mystery. However things to do need to be kept a close eye on
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17 Apr 2023, 10:31 (Ref:4151976) | #1477 | |||
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Electronic components and some exotic materials have gone up between 40 and 200%. |
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18 Apr 2023, 02:13 (Ref:4152058) | #1478 | |||
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V8 Slueth reports the that difference in COG is 0.4 degrees in tip-over angle, not 0.4mm in COG height as reported erroneously elsewhere.
This compares to 2.1 degrees difference between the Mustang and Altima in 2019, which required the Mustang to add 28kg to the roof. This would suggest that, using the small angle approximation, around 0.4/2.1*28kg = 5.3kg now needs to be added to the roof of the Camaro to remove this section of the Camaro's undue parity advantage. References: https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/supercar...data-revealed/ https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/mot...ed-reduce-aero Edit: The roof height is lower than it was before, so it's probably more like ~7kg to achieve the same effect as before I guess. Quote:
This statement from V8 Sleuth is unclear: Quote:
Fair game for parity adjustments, or fair game to be points of competition? Making DJR come back and homologate a lighter bodywork package for 2024 seems the far more expensive option than adding lead to the Camaro (and making Herrod homologate a large capacity engine to have any chance to compete against the 5.7L too), but if that's what the rulemakers want "(it's fair game to) build a better car (and engine)"... Not withstanding the 5.4L Coyote is already detuned by 30hp, and it would easier to just change the engine map than make Herrod build a 5.7L engine! Anyhow, hopefully both changes -- the 6-7kg lead for the Camaro's roof and the revised engine mapping for the 5.4L Coyote which is already prepared -- are installed at Wanneroo and help to close the parity gap. If there is still a difference in rear aero, perhaps a part-width Gurney could be added to the Mustang's bootlid too, these three changes together should do the trick one hopes. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 18 Apr 2023 at 02:36. |
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18 Apr 2023, 04:03 (Ref:4152061) | #1479 | ||
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18 Apr 2023, 05:30 (Ref:4152063) | #1480 | ||
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So if you bring the Coyote right out to the maximum possible bore using replacement iron sleeves (plus a longer stroke) you can get it there, but the rod-to-stroke ratio will be very poor and the pistons will be very close to leaving the bottom of the cylinders. |
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18 Apr 2023, 12:11 (Ref:4152094) | #1481 | ||||
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But given Ford agreed with the aero parity and are not complaining about aero, no change is likely needed. |
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banksie!!! |
18 Apr 2023, 21:07 (Ref:4152138) | #1482 | |||
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
18 Apr 2023, 23:02 (Ref:4152147) | #1483 | ||
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18 Apr 2023, 23:05 (Ref:4152148) | #1484 | ||
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Recall that the Ford Performance approval was based on straight-line VCAT testing, and behaviour in yaw, as determined from the infamous micro sectors, may tell a different story... |
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19 Apr 2023, 14:17 (Ref:4152183) | #1485 | |
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Yes, it would make a lot of sense if the Mustangs aren't handling well. Seems they are struggling with the aero, whereas the Camaros have got their sums right. Certainly seems that way
Ford seem to have been left behind and might struggle to get back |
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19 Apr 2023, 22:42 (Ref:4152227) | #1486 | ||
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Camaros adding some ballast, starting with Wanneroo, to even up the CoG.
Given the positioning of the ballast on the Camaros, any difference at the rear could be fully or partially related to CoG - we may or may not see some detail difference over in the West. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
19 Apr 2023, 23:25 (Ref:4152230) | #1487 | ||
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I don't believe Ford Performance had the opportunity to design and/or position the splitter, wing and body package in the United States to achieve the aerodynamic performance they wanted. |
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20 Apr 2023, 01:34 (Ref:4152234) | #1488 | ||
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The thing that makes me wonder is all last year (and 2020) Supercars (and Larkham) continually crowed about how hard they worked and how important it was to have engine, suspension and aero parity. It was a major part of the case for change to G3.
Then with covid they were gifted an extra 12 months to test simulate tweak and perfect it. THen come race 1 round 1 it quickly became apparent that they had failed at one of their primary objectives and claims. (and as is historically apt, it favoured gm[h]) I cant work out how any multi million dollar professional organisation with some of the best engineers aerodynamicists other experts and some of the best equipment in the world can stuff it up so badly.. even after a 12 month "bonus"._ |
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Bathurst 1977, best day of my childhood Worst thing ever to happen to Ford Aust Motorsport. |
20 Apr 2023, 07:08 (Ref:4152241) | #1489 | |||
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1. Tickford drivers crashing and getting penalties, and Tickford team manager continually using dud strategies 2. DJR drivers fast one weekend and gone fishing the next. DJR also terrible strategy, and absolute put stop clangers week after week. 3. Grove young and still inconsistent, seems to be 2 Dave Reynolds and you don't know which one you get. 4. WAU seem to have the best Mustang package, or at least Chaz does - their second driver is seemingly still hanging out with his BJR mates. Not one of these Ford teams has maximised any weekend yet - all have thrown away podiums with errors. So nobody can judge parity based on round results - nobody. There is science going on that we follow that science to establish technical parity. This gives each manufacturer an equal chance to win providing they put their best foot forward in engineering, strategy and driving. Ford teams so far this year at best are 2/3 and Red Bull seem to have 2 cars up the front with no errors - with Erebus there or thereabouts too. You just cannot paritise for drivers who are past their best, and teams who can't get it together on raceday. Tickford has been like this for quite some time, and DJR has been on the slide since Penske left and Dr Story got ill. WAU look easily like top dog for Ford with the least errors but only one car is showing what it can do. |
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21 Apr 2023, 00:07 (Ref:4152313) | #1490 | ||
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According to Geoff Taunton from MARC cars:
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21 Apr 2023, 00:33 (Ref:4152315) | #1491 | ||
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
21 Apr 2023, 02:39 (Ref:4152318) | #1492 | |
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This comment will age badly if the science shows the 5.4L Coyote is indeed disadvantaged in 4th-6th gears as the drivers said!
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21 Apr 2023, 02:42 (Ref:4152319) | #1493 | |
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21 Apr 2023, 06:02 (Ref:4152327) | #1494 | |
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I can remember a few years back, one or two on here stating that there should be no changes made to the new Mustang until the end of the season. Amazing how the same people can be so quick to call for changes this time around.
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21 Apr 2023, 10:39 (Ref:4152347) | #1495 | ||
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The precedent has now, however, been set for changes with great urgency -- many of which without VCAT tests -- due to the very urgent action seen in the 2019 season. It would have been most logical for the Mustang -- that hit the required drag and downforce numbers to the letter of the rules, which required straight-line values only -- to stay as is, and for another ZB Commodore and L33 Altima aero kit to have been homologated for the 2020 season. With the front splitter and rear wing now being control components (so not things up to competitors to design any more), it is not even clear if Ford Performance were entitled to set their position or rather if their position was set by the ATCC's CFD consultant. Supposedly the rear wing being lowered for the S650 Mustang compared to the S550, even though the vehicles have the same roof profile. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 21 Apr 2023 at 10:48. |
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22 Apr 2023, 00:15 (Ref:4152427) | #1496 | |
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22 Apr 2023, 01:26 (Ref:4152432) | #1497 | |||
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Those numbers that the Mustang achieved in 2019 couldn't be replicated without the drivers doing funny business to achieve them. You can't seriously claim they were fair and a true representation. |
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banksie!!! |
22 Apr 2023, 05:43 (Ref:4152437) | #1498 | ||
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22 Apr 2023, 07:53 (Ref:4152447) | #1499 | |||
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The fact that one hadn't been needed for a while was probably more about the models and body shapes having been settled for a while but once the need was established again, parity changes were made. The ability to do so though, as well as the expectation that it'll be done when needed, was in place WAY before 2019. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
22 Apr 2023, 08:07 (Ref:4152449) | #1500 | |
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