|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
12 Jan 2022, 15:38 (Ref:4093427) | #1551 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,203
|
The last time there was an irrelevant oreca-only class to make the grid look bigger it was called that, so why not. I'd easily give up 10-15 of them to one extra LMH or GTE car. So giving up just one for even a prospect of an extra LMH is a no-brainer.
|
||
|
12 Jan 2022, 17:06 (Ref:4093443) | #1552 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
|
Sadly:
1: LMP2 caters to pro-am drivers/pay drivers (money) 2: Oreca sells a lot of cars (money) 3: Oreca is French (enough said--ACO have a history of playing the nationalistic pride card) |
||
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
12 Jan 2022, 17:41 (Ref:4093453) | #1553 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 223
|
By clicking on the below link, a beginning of an explenation (in french):
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...-belles-annees Frédérix Lesquin is saying: "Le dossier est assez complexe et nous allons communiquer sous peu sur le sujet. Ce que je peux dire est que le dossier ne remplissait pas tous les critères." "The file is quite complex et we will communicate shortly on the matter. What I want to say is that the file was not filling all the croerias" So let see.... |
||
|
13 Jan 2022, 07:05 (Ref:4093539) | #1554 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,654
|
Quote:
Quote:
Yes the cars are now one manufacture, but the teams running them are certainly not! LMP2 have a lot of good hardcore teams running, who either is a certain future Hypercar entry (AF Corsa) or teams who has the caliber to buy hypercars and run them as privateers. The big LMP2 field is in my view an investment in the future. |
||||
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
13 Jan 2022, 11:37 (Ref:4093567) | #1555 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
you said that a lot more diplomatically than i could.
like it or not, lmp2 is the backbone of ACO endurance racing. oreca are raking it in because they’ve build a solid, quick, easy to set up car. the racing is pretty good and there’s some outstanding drivers involved. people on here need to learn to use “in my opinion”, if only to understand that their opinion isn’t the centre of the world - the irony of me making the above statement then this one isn’t lost. it’s a shame that kolles have to go all-in on their car by nature and can’t fall back on a p2 entry to stay in the sport but signatech/alpine are showing how the play the game in that respect. and the glick setup and investment is worlds apart from what kolles are trying to do. |
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
13 Jan 2022, 14:36 (Ref:4093571) | #1556 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,654
|
Not being granted a full WEC season entry does not prevent Kolles from entering the car, race by race, once it is homologated, does it?
It means that Kolles will have to pay additional (and multiple) entry fees, but at least will be able to showcase the car and reel in the sponsorships need to be participate next year. |
||
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
13 Jan 2022, 14:46 (Ref:4093572) | #1557 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,009
|
Quote:
No race by race entrys 2022! https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...capacity-grid/ |
|||
|
13 Jan 2022, 14:47 (Ref:4093573) | #1558 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,493
|
Quote:
This season it does, as the WEC isn’t accepting individual race entries for 2022 because of the record high car counts. |
|||
__________________
“Sometimes there’s no poison like a dream.” — Tanya Donelly |
13 Jan 2022, 16:29 (Ref:4093584) | #1559 | |
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 176
|
Yes, and please remember that race by race entries are specifically forbidden for Hypercars since the category has been introduced. So it would not have worked anyway.
ACO's position regarding ByKolles is not very fair when you look back in 2021 : several GTE-Am cars were consistently missing races, and still are back on the full year grid in 2022. |
|
|
13 Jan 2022, 16:50 (Ref:4093587) | #1560 | |||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,486
|
Quote:
Back to Kolles.....tough spot for the team to be in, and I can't imagine how hard it is to build a car from scratch. But I also would appreciate the ACO allowing for race by race entries from teams that make the effort. It is not like they just bought a turn key racecar and are trying to get on the grid. They are following the spirit of the top class and aren't being allowed to even try. Maybe they can run some tests and show the ACO they are serious and things may change down the line? |
|||
|
13 Jan 2022, 17:56 (Ref:4093598) | #1561 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,203
|
Just to save me some typing lets agree that every time I don't begin a sentence with "In YOUR opinion", the following will be my opinion by default. Because #MePerspnally is bad enough at keeping things concise as it is.
If something that is much like F2, but way uglier, is the backbone of ACO racing, we have a major problem. In sportscar racing, especially(!), there should be no spec classes outside the lower training series. It's a competition of constructors and their machines first and foremost, then people. Always has been. Even in the days of 956 domination there were other challenges and even within the Porsche ranks teams could develop their cars. Last edited by Pandamasque; 13 Jan 2022 at 18:02. |
||
|
13 Jan 2022, 18:04 (Ref:4093603) | #1562 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
|
Well, in my opinion then there should've been LMP2 Pro (unlimited driver certification--all pro line ups allowed) and LMP2 Pro-Am (at least one silver or bronze driver), but that would sort of invalidate LMH as it exists right now (more expensive and not a ton faster without the LMP2 peg backs) and, in IMSA, DPI, where similar things have happened (LMP2 getting pegged back in favor of the preferred top class).
Or, maybe the ACO should've introduced BOP for LMP1 and held off on LMH/LMDH until the new LMP2s were ready to align tech regs. The only race by race deal for LMH right now is LM, and even that's scratched because you have to run at least one race before LM for BOP reasons (Peugeot if they want to make the cut for '22). I'd argue that LMP2 is where it is is because the cars are relatively cheap, the driver allotments (which the top teams obviously exploit by putting young hot shoes into the cars who are classed as silvers basically because they're rookies), and, even compared to GTE-Am, is the entry level class for the WEC. |
||
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
13 Jan 2022, 18:09 (Ref:4093605) | #1563 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,203
|
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ce-at-le-mans/
So the official word is, it's not double standards. It's some other criteria of which they decided not to tell us. Quote:
|
|||
|
13 Jan 2022, 19:30 (Ref:4093611) | #1564 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 263
|
Reading between the lines I am guessing someone said 'Where is the road Car/Manufacturer tie in?
|
||
|
13 Jan 2022, 20:06 (Ref:4093618) | #1565 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,203
|
|||
|
13 Jan 2022, 20:36 (Ref:4093622) | #1566 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
|
Maybe follow the money? Peugeot is a big car maker and is extant. And their dollars/Euros/Francs speak loader than where ever Colin Kolles gets his money from.
|
||
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
13 Jan 2022, 20:39 (Ref:4093623) | #1567 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,018
|
People are guessing. The Autosport article doesn’t attribute it to anything specific, but discusses some things it could be.
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/w...-2022/7222367/ Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Brum brum |
13 Jan 2022, 21:02 (Ref:4093627) | #1568 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
2021 wec sporting regs have this:
Quote:
|
||
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
13 Jan 2022, 23:02 (Ref:4093640) | #1569 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,926
|
Maybe Bella's point is that maybe Kolles bit off a bit more than they could chew by trying to enter in as a factory branded effort, or simply screwed up their paperwork (same thing has happened in some modern small arms procurements a few times in recent years). Especially as they are basically a privateer team and could've done just like Glickenhaus and entered LMH non-hybrid, which is aimed pretty much exclusively at privateers or small manufacturers.
Of course, combined with Kolles' record of half-baked efforts and often spectacular DNFs in races, could also just mean that the ACO and the Endurance Committee didn't take them as seriously as Peugeot. Which, even with as insane as Peugeot's car seems right now, seems easy to do. Just look at Glickenhaus. They may be an upstart team in terms or prototype racing and say what you will of what they say on social media, Jim and his guys have pretty much done what they said they were going to do. Can't really hold Kolles up on that record of success. Last edited by chernaudi; 13 Jan 2022 at 23:09. |
||
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
13 Jan 2022, 23:23 (Ref:4093646) | #1570 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
|
Quote:
bykolles is a team that was liquidated and created again more than few times in different countries out of clear fiscal reasons, has a long backlog of unpaid debts to suppliers, took part to full WEC seasons only in 2015 and 2016, more than once expressed its disappointment to ACO last year and is people still really wondering why ACO didn't accept it? Honestly which financial and technical guarantees could give a team like that? But to me is the former ACO CEO/managment the one to blame, old managment always let lmp1 manufacturers and team come and go as they pleased as long to keep something "interesting" to show... it's natural bykolles tried to access WEC the same easy ways he managed to do in the past... I'm glad new CEO seems to have a more harsh and firm attitude, he said no to kolles and told peugeot his conditions to let them be at le mans. |
||
|
14 Jan 2022, 07:14 (Ref:4093683) | #1571 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,431
|
||
|
28 Jan 2022, 16:34 (Ref:4095716) | #1572 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,044
|
Can't read all of this but article says Vanwall were not aware of this ByKolles project!!!
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...vanwall-racing Absolutely superb scenes. Lotus all over again. |
|
__________________
For when your year runs from June to June - '11/'12/'13/'14/'15/'16/'17/'18/'19/xx/'21/'22/'23/'24 Instagram: rsmotorsportmedia |
28 Jan 2022, 16:45 (Ref:4095717) | #1573 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
|
Quote:
They used to be excellent, though. |
|||
|
28 Jan 2022, 16:45 (Ref:4095718) | #1574 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,018
|
It is the whole situation that the ACO did not grant an entry for, which is not really surprising. The full season reason is unlikely to be it.
OT. There is a media thread somewhere, although it might just be North America. It’s quite moany, so very suitable. Paywall doesn’t lose you credibility, it loses you readers. Probably means you have to maximise quality and credibility to sustain readers. But there is a potential media thread discussion there. |
||
__________________
Brum brum |
28 Jan 2022, 16:53 (Ref:4095720) | #1575 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,203
|
Quote:
On a serious note, do you think that Kolles registered the trade mark without so much as googling the name, and really made no effort to come to an agreement with the Vanwall firm that's supposed to be building Grand Prix car replicas? Or maybe the deal fell through and the other party is trying to distance themselves from Kolles. It looks messy and I think this explains why the WEC selection committee was so reluctant to mention any details to avoid further damaging the reputation of all involved. Last edited by Pandamasque; 28 Jan 2022 at 17:03. |
|||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Kolles to buy out Campos in F1??? | Tim the Grey | Sportscar & GT Racing | 13 | 3 Mar 2010 17:59 |
Sutil takes adria pole for Kolles! | mcurtis26 | National & International Single Seaters | 9 | 15 May 2004 20:39 |
Heylen out, Green in at Kolles | Marcel ten Caat | National & International Single Seaters | 3 | 17 Sep 2003 07:14 |
Carlin cooperating with team kolles! | *formula3* | National & International Single Seaters | 5 | 4 Nov 2002 19:39 |