USCC 2014 Entry List & Schedule ONLY

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

GTE might have been the best class in the ALMS but that's not saying much. In the USCC its down to 3rd or 4th best class...

Have you never watch the Blancpain series? Makes GTE look like a joke.

GTD will be that with 30 instead of 20 cars. GTE/GTLM will be irrelevant to new/casual fans. One GT class just makes sense for the future. Not sure what IMSA will do this year but it would be pretty daft to tell 10 GTD cars that they are not wanted..

Other option is to move PC to race with imsa lites.

Cue spit take.

Are you effing serious???

Blancpain is cool and all, and so are GT3 cars.. But to suggest that GTE is somehow inferior to GT3 is just ludicrous.

Frankly, those 10 GTD cars that you are completely assuming will be told to shove off may not even exist, or run beyond the first two races. Please don't act like not having 30 GTD cars (which is wholly an assumption) is going to end the series.

[Christian Mogami]

Pickett Racing = Nissan GT

Nissan GTR with 4.5L V8?

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Pickett Racing = Nissan GT

Nissan GTR with 4.5L V8?

Id think it would be the TTV6- http://www.jrm-group.com/nissan-gt_r...-specification

What would IMSA rather deal with. Balancing the TTV6 with the Flat6, V10, V12. Or allowing them to swap to the V8. I get the impression IMSA is trying to move away from allowing teams to swap to not production engines.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

I'm sure most wont agree with me but i think the WHOLE GTLM class need to be booted out... right over to the WEC. I know they bring big advertising bucks but we dont need 2 GT class's and the WEC should be the place for manufacturers. The small grids in the WEC need a boost and i really want the WEC to be huge, adding the factory team to GTE Pro over there would be perfect.

That would leave room for 30 GTD cars. Plus the GTD cars could be let loose a bit and in the future run at full GT3 spec... I wouldn't miss GTLM at all. Plus I could watch the WEC with more interest.

You've moved tenthers to posting gifs. I've never seen that, but you posted your opinion so good on you... You're wrong, but good on you.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by BullMan

So yes, your idea is still awful, and it won't happen.

The 2 GT classes are gonna merge, and I think the one with 30 potential entrants and variety and actual privateer entrants has better chances of surviving than the one with the manufacturers, and da money (which by definition can disappear quickly). And btw it's the BOP in GTE with big money and big egos involved that could be at the root of that class' collapse... unless Audi starts playing that game in GTD with part-time entries involving factory entrants and trick aero parts.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Beetle

Regarding the notion that there will likely be a Nissan-Pickett Racing interdependence in North American racing, I originally thought it was bonkers, but upon closer inspection, perhaps feasible. There has been support, albeit limited, in the Pirelli World Challenge, and a few European teams will bringing Nismo power to the States. I don't think it would necessarily be a bad idea or a bad car to try and develop, but as far as a GTD effort, there simply isn't space.

I've been doing some number crunching and this is what I've come up with. For Daytona, the class cap for GTD is 19 cars. What you see below is what one could reasonably expect for GTD at Daytona, disregarding any oddball, unannounced entries we saw last year like TruSpeed, Rum Bum, Dener, Vehicle Technologies, etc:

1x Konrad Motorsports Porsche
2x Dempsey Racing Porsche
1x JDX Racing Porsche
1x GMG Racing Audi R8
2x Muehlner Porsche
2x AJR Porsche (includes Team Seattle)
1+x Audi Sport North America
1x NGT Motorsports
1x Riley Technologies Viper
2x Flying Lizard Audi
1x Magnus Porsche
1x Fall-Line Audi
1x Paul Miller Audi
1x Snow Racing Porsche
1+x Ferrari Corse Clienti
1-2x Scuderia Corsa
2x TRG-AMR North America
1x AIM Autosport
1x ESM Ferrari
2x Horton Autosport/Park Place
1-2x Turner Motorsports BMW Z4 GT3

That, at the very minimum, is 27 entries. We could reasonably expect up to 30 or more. Add one or two Pickett Racing Nissan GTRs and that's nearly half the field.

Whose going to get the boot for Daytona? I'd bet on...

- one of the Turner Z4s
- one of the Horton Porsches
- the Konrad Porsche
- one of the Muehlner Porsches
- all but one of the Audi North America customer, one-off R8s
- one of the TRG Aston Martins
- the Snow Racing Porsche
- one of the Scuderia Corsa Ferraris
- one of the Corsa Clienti Ferraris
- the ESM Ferrari

Additionally, is it not an option to add more GTD spots if GTLM and/or LMPC aren't filled up to the class cap by the entry deadline?

Let em all show up, and have to race their way into it with qualifying, imo.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Félix

The 2 GT classes are gonna merge, and I think the one with 30 potential entrants and variety and actual privateer entrants has better chances of surviving than the one with the manufacturers, and da money (which by definition can disappear quickly). And btw it's the BOP in GTE with big money and big egos involved that could be at the root of that class' collapse... unless Audi starts playing that game in GTD with part-time entries involving factory entrants and trick aero parts.

The two classes are going to merge into one technical rulebook, but there will still be a pro (factory) class and a pro-am class.

[Birddog07]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Blancpain is a Pro-Am series. GTLM is PROFESSIONAL teams racing the absolute coolest cars on the planet.

Blancpain actually has more full pro cars than ALMS had, and some of the top pro-am cars are very competitive against fully pro lineups, if not sometimes faster. Blancpain also has some pretty cool cars that could definatley run with GTLM cars. If anything, GT3 cars are faster.

I love GTLM, but there is a reason that GT3 cars are so abundant, and even the ACO would like to move to them.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by BullMan

The two classes are going to merge into one technical rulebook, but there will still be a pro (factory) class and a pro-am class.

Yep.




L.P.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Blancpain actually has more full pro cars than ALMS had, and some of the top pro-am cars are very competitive against fully pro lineups, if not sometimes faster. Blancpain also has some pretty cool cars that could definatley run with GTLM cars. If anything, GT3 cars are faster.

I love GTLM, but there is a reason that GT3 cars are so abundant, and even the ACO would like to move to them.

+1. And having seen GTE and GT3 cars racing side by side in GT-Open there really isn't much between them.

[freeballin]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

I'm sure most wont agree with me but i think the WHOLE GTLM class need to be booted out... right over to the WEC. I know they bring big advertising bucks but we dont need 2 GT class's and the WEC should be the place for manufacturers. The small grids in the WEC need a boost and i really want the WEC to be huge, adding the factory team to GTE Pro over there would be perfect.

That would leave room for 30 GTD cars. Plus the GTD cars could be let loose a bit and in the future run at full GT3 spec... I wouldn't miss GTLM at all. Plus I could watch the WEC with more interest.

QFT. GTD will have more cars and more diversity with the potential to keep growing. GTLM is a stagnate class that will max out with 10-12 cars.

GTLM is being kept for money. It's not a quality of racing decision.

[MitchZ06]

You can tell the Grand-Am fans here...

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by freeballin

GTLM is being kept for money. It's not a quality of racing decision.

Did you ever watch an ALMS race? The quality of racing in the GT category was always very good when I watched it.

[Maelochs]

Even the management teams which killed off the two top sports car series on the continent with their bad decisions were smart enough to make GTLM the one definitely unchanged part of the new series.

If something is so obvious even blind people can see it ...

Further, the factories want it---and to the poster who said that GTLM is a factory class and therefore the money "by definition, can disappear quickly” (definition of What? I must ask) I would point out that GTLM (GT2, GTE, GTE-Pro) has been the one class where manufacturers will Never leave, because it is the most cost-effective place to race cars the fans can immediately identify with and can wish possibly even hope to own.

(Hmmm … for how many years have Corvette, Porsche, and Ferrari raced in ALMS? Oh … all of them. Yeah, that money sure can’t be counted on.)

Manufacturers want GTLM because it is not pure BoP—it is a class where development is limited by rules, and thus can pay off, as opposed to GT3, where development is not limited by anything but budget, but then could be nerfed out of existence immediately by the BoP squad. (And yes, sometimes GTLM has seen cars BoP’d up or down in a questionable fashion, but particularly in ALMS, egregious examples have been few.)

On top of that, the racing is Always good, and sometimes great. Sure, there are other series where GT racing is also good—but that is no reason to eliminate GTLM, where it is always good. Bird in the hand, and all that.

And yes, the steady flow of manufacturer dollars does make a difference, not just in entry fees, but in independent advertising (please point me to a two-page magazine spread or a TV commercial purchased by a GT3 team … (crickets …. )) Racing is a business, and Stable manufacturer involvement is a plus for the business.

It appears that the new GT class might involve an homologated basic chassis and motor with two levels of modification—a pro and Pro-Am level. The “Run-what-you-brung, and let-us-strangle-it” GT3 philosophy will be gone, which will make factory involvement more important (not likely some independent tuner would be allowed to homologate a car without the factory’s approval) which means that “by definition” ready-to-leave factory money will be the sole support of the class.

Good thing that poster was wrong about “da money (which by definition can disappear quickly).”

[joeb]

This whole GTLM vs GTD debate won't be much of an issue in a couple of years when the new GT regs are setup. Although it will be interesting to see if the current cars can be grandfathered into the new classes for a year.

[Carbone]

The GTE is a masquerade.

The class has a technical regulations, but nothing is respected :

Aston Martin Vantage = not statutory (engine)
Viper = not statutory (engine)
BMW Z4 = not statutory (engine)

There is a balance of performance with more than 6 variables:

- Weight
- Restrictor
- Gurney
- Fuel tank capacity
- Height of the rear wing
- Ride height
- Front splitter (997 RSR spec.2012)

In WEC, the worst GT (Aston Martin) makes 7 pole position in 2013 and leads all the classes GT (PRO and AM) : it's just stupid.

The GTE is a nonsense : same cars, same performance, also balance of performance but more expensive of the GT3 FIA...

[Purist]

As soon as you drop GTE/GTLM, the factories go to GT3, and suddenly, the price of that class has shot up to GTE levels, and your arguments are negated.

(The price of GT3 has already shot up drastically from where it started in 2006, even without direct, factory involvement.)

[HORNDAWG]

This belongs in the main TUSC thread, not in this one.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136956

As 2014 classes are already set, period!









L.P.

[Speed-King]

Further, the factories want it---and to the poster who said that GTLM is a factory class and therefore the money "by definition, can disappear quickly” (definition of What? I must ask) I would point out that GTLM (GT2, GTE, GTE-Pro) has been the one class where manufacturers will Never leave, because it is the most cost-effective place to race cars the fans can immediately identify with and can wish possibly even hope to own.

Never say never... I remember a well respected sportscar writer calling for GT1 to replace LMP1 as the top class in ALMS in around 2005, because that's where all the factory interest suppossedly was going to go in the future.

Also, there were quite some rumors over the off-season about Ferrari having no more interest in competing in GTLM in the US - looks like they decided to stay, but the fact that they were considering moving down to GTD is quite telling.

I'd imagine dropping down one level could have been rather attractive for some manufacturers if it wasn't for the Pro/Am requirement.

[FstrthnU]

http://www.planetlemans.com/2013/11/...-announcement/

Fall Line Motorsports to run Charlie Putman and Charles Espenlaub in the Audi R8 LMS.

This now makes 18 confirmed entries for GTD. Space is running out really fast...

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Also, there were quite some rumors over the off-season about Ferrari having no more interest in competing in GTLM in the US - looks like they decided to stay, but the fact that they were considering moving down to GTD is quite telling.

Careful you don't confuse factory motorsport/marketing interest with customer/business interest. :-)

-mike

[canciaro]

Ok so freeballin and PatrickB are drunk and all their comments should be disregarded. Yeah GTD diversity, its called a ton of porsches.

I am still curious about what Muscle Milk would bring to the GTLM category, should be interesting to see. I know Lucas has driven the Nissan but im just not a fan, I wouldnt mind an Audi R8 if they could somehow get it homologated to GTE.

#1 choice would still be the Aston Martin.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Careful you don't confuse factory motorsport/marketing interest with customer/business interest. :-)

-mike

I (don't think) I do... but weren't Ferrari and Porsche just fine with dropping out of GT1 and running their semi-factory programs in the slower of two GT-classes for the better part of the last decade?

[freeballin]

Originally Posted by canciaro

Ok so freeballin and PatrickB are drunk and all their comments should be disregarded. Yeah GTD diversity, its called a ton of porsches.

I am still curious about what Muscle Milk would bring to the GTLM category, should be interesting to see. I know Lucas has driven the Nissan but im just not a fan, I wouldnt mind an Audi R8 if they could somehow get it homologated to GTE.

#1 choice would still be the Aston Martin.

GTD will have Porsche, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Ferrari, and SRT Viper.

GTLM will have Porsche, BMW, SRT Viper, and Corvette.

Those are facts. Maybe if we're lucky Aston Martin might show up for a race or two in GTLM, but that doesn't count.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by freeballin

GTD will have Porsche, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Ferrari, and SRT Viper.

GTLM will have Porsche, BMW, SRT Viper, and Corvette.

Those are facts. Maybe if we're lucky Aston Martin might show up for a race or two in GTLM, but that doesn't count.

Those are assumptions.