[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[ECW Dan Selby]

Fundamentally, nothing's changed. It's the same qualy, just singular elimination as oppose to group elimination. It puts the drivers under more pressure, which is fantastic!

I don't see the concept of the slowest driver being eliminated every 90 seconds as particularly hard to grasp. People make it sound like rocket science!

Perhaps we're just programmed to complain at the thought of anything new.

I like this concept, and definitely willing to give it a whirl. If it flops, bin it!

Selby

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think this is the plan, create as much controversy and outrage as possible, and hopefully the motor racing press buys into it!

F1 finally goes WWF.

Perhaps they should get a bear pit and get the drivers to sort out their grievances amongst themselves after qualifying.

I've been saying this for ages! WWE and F1 are 'sports entertainment'. I think the quicker people get on board (no pun intended) with that, the more comfortable we'll be about many things, right or wrong, in F1.

Do I like it? No. But I love professional wrestling lol I'd rather the sport remain a sport, but while someone as whacky as Bernie is in charge, this is the way it is.

IF it does end up being the stewards re-arranging the grid, then yeh, this is too sports entertainment for my liking. The current concept however, i'm totally fine with.

Let's let it play out, and see where it goes.

To be honest, the neverending engine/gearbox penalties irritate me more. As a viewer, they just feel completely irrelevant, and made qualifying seem a little pointless.

Selby

[chillibowl]

agreed. while the change may have been unnecessary and contains some manufactured drama, it wont be difficult to follow whats happening and if it throws up some more mistakes/driver errors then that is really a good thing.

and if the battle is only going to be between Nico and Ham this year then we are basically going to get a one lap shoot out/winner takes pole between the two of them at the end of each Q3...thats exciting imo.

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

To be honest, the neverending engine/gearbox penalties irritate me more. As a viewer, they just feel completely irrelevant, and made qualifying seem a little pointless.

indeed. that was an issue last year.

what are the new grid penalty/engine rules?

i know the allotment is up to 5 units this year but will the grid penalties work the same way as last year if a 6th engine/part is used?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by rpolinski

I'm not sure if someone has already suggested this, but I can see that the qualifying change will indeed increase the spectacle and mix up the grid, just not in the way they were expecting. I can imagine the spectacle as post-qualifying steward's meeting taking longer than qualifying itself as the line of drivers argue that they were eliminated because driver X held them up on a fast lap. And the grid will be mixed up as the penalties are applied and the starting grid shows little resemblance to the order in which they finish qualifying.

that could be an issue particularly from drivers who have been knocked out and run a cool down lap as they have to make their way all around the track to get back into the pits.

i wonder if it doesn't make more sense to move the time line/start finish line a couple of corners back to before the pit entrance (just for quali) so drivers who are knocked out can more quickly get off the track.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think this is the plan, create as much controversy and outrage as possible, and hopefully the motor racing press buys into it!

F1 finally goes WWF.

Perhaps they should get a bear pit and get the drivers to sort out their grievances amongst themselves after qualifying.

The WWF reference might work if the proposed system didn't put the driver who was fastest in the session on pole. It does.

Please bear in mind I wouldn't have this, or the previous system, and just let it be the fastest over practice sessions. However I can see how the people running the show get confused the feedback from the fans is so exaggerated.

[old man]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i wonder if it doesn't make more sense to move the time line/start finish line a couple of corners back to before the pit entrance (just for quali) so drivers who are knocked out can more quickly get off the track.

[Adam43]

That's a good idea.

[wolfhound]

I don't know about current F1 motors but a lot of race engines don't like going from working temperature to cold rapidly and this might be an issue but I suspect F1 teams have a means to cool their cars at the desired rate in the garage.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The WWF reference might work if the proposed system didn't put the driver who was fastest in the session on pole. It does.

Please bear in mind I wouldn't have this, or the previous system, and just let it be the fastest over practice sessions. However I can see how the people running the show get confused the feedback from the fans is so exaggerated.

This is my concern with the new system as expressed by Chillibowl above:

that could be an issue particularly from drivers who have been knocked out and run a cool down lap as they have to make their way all around the track to get back into the pits.

i wonder if it doesn't make more sense to move the time line/start finish line a couple of corners back to before the pit entrance (just for quali) so drivers who are knocked out can more quickly get off the track. Chillibowl


The slowing drivers will create a super dangerous situation and a random moving roadblock.

Hope we don't get another Gilles Villeneuve type accident from this problem.

In a lot of ways the theory is no different from the 3 quali sessions we have at present, which, I might suggest is just the new system designed to prevent a car on a full out qualifying lap tripping over a car on an in lap.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

The slowing drivers will create a super dangerous situation and a random moving roadblock.

Hope we don't get another Gilles Villeneuve type accident from this problem.

They are literally playing with people's lives here.

[chillibowl]

while im worried about the movable chicane issue in qualifying i have to admit my excitement at seeing how drivers manage it with the hopes that the better drivers will be rewarded for working out the spacing in their heads and can pass while on a fast lap overrides my desire to see a safety first approach.

but if it does present considerable safety issues, i would prefer to see sensible measures taken to correct it.

im also a fan of the MotoGP format where the bottom half (determined by times set in practice) run in Q1 with the top two riders being allowed to move onto Q2.

modified for f1, they could split the field into 2 groups, with half running in Q1 and the other half running in Q2, with the top 5 from each session advancing to Q3.

of course we will know more after we see this in action but there are really a lot of ways to skin this apple.

[Adam43]

I like idea of moving the timing line. Why not, although it'll confuse people and hence be seen as another example of F1 going down the pan.

However is it a significant issue? Putting aside the melodrama from a few posts ago, the qualifying sessions have always had this situation, except often you can have more than one driver being slow. The slow driver has to keep out of the way. Same same.

[chillibowl]

true true. at most it may be a potential issue but certainly not a significant one. the drivers will figure it out as they always do.

[BSchneiderFan]

The more I think about it, the more I think it should be single-lap qualifying, running in reverse championship order. If you screw up, you screw up. Eliminates any problems of drivers being held up, and gives the smaller teams better TV exposure.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The more I think about it, the more I think it should be single-lap qualifying, running in reverse championship order. If you screw up, you screw up. Eliminates any problems of drivers being held up, and gives the smaller teams better TV exposure.

Except when they tried it, it proved to be very unpopular with drivers, teams, promotors, spectators and TV viewers. That is why it was dropped, and after some tweaking, the non-musical chairs system was introduced. This has proved to be fairly popular with all concerned, and one really has to wonder why you need to meddle with something that is working.

In answer to the slowing down on an in lap or out lap, I do believe that all cars have to maintain a minimum speed and minimum lap time; this was introduced for the very reason that cars on a hot lap were being baulked by cars on an in or out lap. Drivers tend, on the whole, to observe this nicety as they won't want it to happen to them. Having said that, I am sure that there will be occasions that cars will probably get in the way accidently, as has been the case since qualifying started so many years ago.

[Alfaholic]

How many of the current circuits have a lap time of over 1m30s?

There may be occasions in qualifying where a driver crosses the line just as the time for the current slowest driver to be eliminated passes. If the lap time is over the 90 seconds, they don't have time to improve their time before the next elimination and risk having their time beaten by those crossing the timing line after them and being the next one out.

[wolfhound]

From following this discussion the reason for the change to qualifying was instigated at the stratagy group by one BCE. You may have notice he has been bad mouthing F1 again saying the format must change. He wanted to have some form of a qualifying race on the Saturday. However the teams said ask the circuits and TV companies (they would have a bigger potential interest in changes than the teams). Bernie did this and the result was a definite NO. C4 for example has there commercial breaks built around qualifying as there will be no adds in the race. As a result result Bernie had to push through some changes to save face. The new qualifying format is the result.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...494.1448115426

Did he ever hear about if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I suspect the new 2017 rules will end up with a similar result and less overtaking.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

How many of the current circuits have a lap time of over 1m30s?

There may be occasions in qualifying where a driver crosses the line just as the time for the current slowest driver to be eliminated passes. If the lap time is over the 90 seconds, they don't have time to improve their time before the next elimination and risk having their time beaten by those crossing the timing line after them and being the next one out.

Should have driven quicker, earlier

It's an issue if the track is improving, especially if it is a dying track. However track position and timing had always been an issue. A slightly different thing to think about.

The main issue is not likely to be poor timing, or even that it makes it more likely someone might die, but rather everyone sets their fastest time in the first few minutes and then no one improves in the last few minutes.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

How many of the current circuits have a lap time of over 1m30s?

There may be occasions in qualifying where a driver crosses the line just as the time for the current slowest driver to be eliminated passes. If the lap time is over the 90 seconds, they don't have time to improve their time before the next elimination and risk having their time beaten by those crossing the timing line after them and being the next one out.

Quick bit of Google research suggests Spa, Bahrain, Suzuka, Sepang, Shanghai and Abu Dhabi. It will depend on weather at some tracks

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Should have driven quicker, earlier

It's an issue if the track is improving, especially if it is a dying track. However track position and timing had always been an issue. A slightly different thing to think about.

The main issue is not likely to be poor timing, or even that it makes it more likely someone might die, but rather everyone sets their fastest time in the first few minutes and then no one improves in the last few minutes.

So if someone sets the pole lap on their first lap, they are guaranteed to be in for the whole hour?
No resets for each stage?

Seems like a big hole!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

The times reset for each part of Qually

I think what was meant was at the start of each part of qually before the eliminations begin.

[Adam43]

Yep.

[chillibowl]

follow up question as i have just read some comments from Lauda. link here.

"It will mean you have to go out immediately with new tyres so you set your time," he said.

"In Q3 this could mean that there are no cars on the track in the last eight minutes," Wolff warned, "because by then you will have only used tyres left.

i guess i was under the impression that the lap times were effectively reset for each lap so after the initial 5 minute (or whatever) warm up period when the knock out phase begins, every 90 seconds the slowest driver based on their last completed lap would be knocked out.

Lauda's quote would suggest otherwise.

[Mike Harte]

I share the same interpretation as Niki Lauda; in each qualifying session, you only need to set the fastest time just once, and then you are reliant on whatever tyres you have available. Based on times set during testing, this may well give Mercedes a fairly hefty advantage as they seemed to be able to achieve lap times equal to other cars, but on a harder compound.

I think that we may well see Mercedes, and possibly Ferrari, come out and post their quick laps and then go and disappear in their garages.

[djinvicta]

So what happens when on the "in lap" an eliminated car breaks down and the yellows come out?