Ferrari dismiss Stepney/McLaren suspend Coughlan - Page 67

Teretonga · 9 Sep 2007, 17:37 (Ref:2007786)

GT_R
I have NO problem with the 'red team' being sponsored by a cigarette company,,,
That line of thought didn't even cross my mind....
I was staggered when I saw what meaning you had taken out of the post.
I actually think it is immoral of governments to ban the advertising of a legal product they earn millions a year off in tax revenue....

**Peter Mallett** · 9 Sep 2007, 17:38 (Ref:2007788)

Ah yes,

Wouldn't it be great for the holier than thou to suddenly find themselve not so holy.

The point is these are businesmen and they will do things that are perhaps not totally ethical. However to call their ethics into question you do need to be whiter than white yourselves and for me Ferrari's hands are sooooo dirty it is unreal.

And as we all know, the biter will most definitely be bit.

**Adam43** · 9 Sep 2007, 17:39 (Ref:2007789)

OK, we have established that tobacco is not the topic of the thread.

Mr V · 9 Sep 2007, 18:59 (Ref:2007833)

I thought it was a great show of team unity after the race when the whole team gathered outside the pit garage, and maybe an "up yours" to Ferrari and the FIA

Ron looked very humbled by, what i took, to be his teams support of him.

JeremySmith · 9 Sep 2007, 19:01 (Ref:2007836)

Yes sir...

JohnSSC · 9 Sep 2007, 19:56 (Ref:2007882)

So could someone please explain to me how Ferrari is being "detrimental to the sport" by pursuing this with Stepney? Further, the request for info went from Max to all the teams, not from Ferrari to all the teams and the email between PDLR and FA was a Mc thing.

I am getting the feeling here, that despite all this faux "fair play" thing folks bang on about there are some fair few still predisposed to blame Ferrari for the trouble Mc is now in. I guess if someone steals 780 pages of tech info, gives it to a member of another team with multiple people on the other team seeing it then obviously the FIA should punish the team the information was stolen from as they should have kept their secrets better.

As far as the Red Bull/STR thing or the Toyota folks, in neither case are the teams any threat to win the WCC. While the FIA perhaps allowed local authorities (in Toyota's case) to deal with the theft from Ferrari (should Ferrari be punished for this as well?), they may have made the decision that F1 fans suffer enough watching the STRs wobble about out there challenging for 16th or 17th on the grid.

But yes, all very sporting, Ron can't be blamed because a number of his management people saw the info (but didn't study it - sure!) as you can't hold a corporation responsible for the behaviour of it's employees! Why just ask the folks in Bhopal, India what they think of that. Why it was just some bad decisions on the part of individuals...

**Adam43** · 9 Sep 2007, 20:51 (Ref:2007929)

Are you actually comparing Ron's running of McLaren to a disaster that caused the loss of thousands of lives? And do you actually expect people to take your post seriously after doing so?

It is clear why people think Ferrari are not doing the sport any favours; they are banging on about it all the time, sticking the ore in and not just letting the FIA get on with it. (In this post) I'm not saying that they shouldn't be doing what they are doing, just that your first question seems odd, as it is clear that others have said why they believe Ferrari are being detrimental to the sport! Others aren't referring to just the pursuing of Stepney.

Dutton · 9 Sep 2007, 21:05 (Ref:2007948)

F1 teams behave in a tremendously selfish, and often short-sighted, manner. It is what they do.

I expect nothing less/more.

Teretonga · 9 Sep 2007, 21:12 (Ref:2007952)

Ferrari have every legal right to pursue Stepney if there is substance to the allegations. They have a legal right to pursue the connection between Stepney and Coughlan through legal avenues.

Pursuing McLaren through the media, (mainly Italian media), may be construed as bringing the sport into disrepute, particularly if the substance of the dossier has not been determined and if in fact the case turns out to be something less than what it has been trumped up to be.

If Ferrari blink or stumble over any part of this matter the boot may be on the other foot, providing of course the FIA is able to discern a degree of even handedness in their decision making processs.
It's all up for grabs in Paris. We'll have to wait and see.

JeremySmith · 9 Sep 2007, 21:18 (Ref:2007958)

They are poor losers...Let's face it!

pottiella · 9 Sep 2007, 21:21 (Ref:2007960)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

They are poor losers...Let's face it!

ruh oh...before the bombardment starts....

ralf fan · 9 Sep 2007, 21:26 (Ref:2007965)

I think it is fair to say that we must wait and see what this new evidence is before playing the blame game. If it proves beyond doubt that Mclaren used Ferrari data to further their car then sure punish the cheats. However people should be able to understand our pessimism at the timing of this revelation. It isn't the first time something political came up at Monza while Ferrari are locked in a championship battle. Also the shenanigans with the police was ludicrous. Why not wait till after qualifying. Why wait to exactly an hour before qualifying to serve these notices. To me they felt like a tactic to distract the team. All i can say is this new piece of evidence better be good or Ferrari and the FIA will lose all credibility, if they have any left that is.

JeremySmith · 9 Sep 2007, 21:33 (Ref:2007968)

Well I agree we need to wait and see, but Ferrari are asking for a major cans of worms to be unleashed. I hope that they can take the heat..

Red Bulldog · 9 Sep 2007, 21:44 (Ref:2007974)

Just to lighten the mood a little:
McLaren may lose their constructor’s points (probable)

I know how much you guys like numbers, so:
If McLaren lose the driver’s points as well (possible) and all driver’s points are readjusted for the season (unlikely). This would be the top 4:

Kimi 92
Felipe 85
Nick 73
Robert 51

**Adam43** · 9 Sep 2007, 21:53 (Ref:2007981)

Go Nick!

JeremySmith · 9 Sep 2007, 21:56 (Ref:2007990)

There you go Adam!

**Bononi** · 9 Sep 2007, 22:10 (Ref:2008001)

The drivers can't lose their points, it's unfair to say the least.

JeremySmith · 9 Sep 2007, 22:19 (Ref:2008015)

And you know Bon..I don't think for one minute they will, that would be terribly unfair...

Mr V · 9 Sep 2007, 22:34 (Ref:2008032)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bulldog

If McLaren lose the driver’s points as well (possible) and all driver’s points are readjusted for the season (unlikely).

As you say, it's unlikely, but i'd just like to point out, when Michael had his points stripped after 1997, the other drivers didn't have their points readjusted.

**Bononi** · 9 Sep 2007, 22:53 (Ref:2008042)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

As you say, it's unlikely, but i'd just like to point out, when Michael had his points stripped after 1997, the other drivers didn't have their points readjusted.

Exactly, they'll keep the results only taking out the drivers punished...

That would be awful.

I don't think Massa or Kimi would like to "win" a WDC that way.

Marbot · 9 Sep 2007, 22:57 (Ref:2008046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

And you know Bon..I don't think for one minute they will, that would be terribly unfair...

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there.

There's talk of Ron opening some sort of 'Pandora's box'.I can see Heidfeld running away with this championship.

Marbot · 9 Sep 2007, 22:59 (Ref:2008049)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I don't think Massa or Kimi would like to "win" a WDC that way.

Championships have been one in worse circumstances than that.

**Bononi** · 9 Sep 2007, 23:01 (Ref:2008053)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

There's talk of Ron opening some sort of 'Pandora's box'.I can see Heidfeld running away with this championship.

What what I said a couple of pages ago.

Red Bulldog · 9 Sep 2007, 23:04 (Ref:2008055)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I can see Heidfeld running away with this championship.

I hope so, I put a small wager on him to win the WDC (just because the odds were good)

Marbot · 9 Sep 2007, 23:28 (Ref:2008073)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bulldog

I hope so, I put a small wager on him to win the WDC (just because the odds were good)

You may have to share that with Knowlesy.

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