2014 Japanese Super GT

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Personally I never really cared for driver championships in sportscars and manufacturer / team standings are the only things that truly matter, but I don't know which one gets the biggest PR in this series.

Much like any super successful series commercially, the drivers are the ones marketed.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Matt

Much like any super successful series commercially, the drivers are the ones marketed.

That is true for single seaters, NASCAR, bikes and alike, but apart from perhaps USCC ((foolish) Grand-Am marketing mind carry-over) I can't think of a sportscar series where the bigger PR spin is made on drivers rather than the actual vehicles on track. No-one can seriously suggest that WEC for example, not to mention it's jewel in crown promotes drivers more than it's cars/manufacturers/teams.

I guess it could be 50-50 for SGT?

[Matt]

SGT isn't your typical sports car series championship though.

...and the WEC isn't successful in the same way SGT/NASCAR/F1 are. The only people that know about the WEC outside of Le Mans are the hardcore fans.

Matter of fact, unless you've got skin in the game(JML in WTCC and Argentinians), the only really known FIA world championship that's known to the non-hardcore motorsport fan would be F1.

[Deleted]

The only people who know of SGT outside of Japan are anoraks too, and much more so than is the case with LM/WEC or USCC or whatever as it's so isolated to one country and language. On purpose too...

Think we can all agree that if you had to pick one motorsport series in the world that some random hillbilly (outside NASCAR land) would know, it'd be F1. And that driver-centric series tend to be the most popular ones, of course.

It's just that just as other sportscar series, I don't think SGT is marketed as drivers-first category as fiercely as those BIG series, as you hinted earlier.

[Matt]

Ahhhh no, SGT is known by many, at least over here simply from it's involvement in Gran Turismo/Forza Motorsport.



The drivers in SGT are marketed a shedload, treated as celebrities over there and such, from what I've heard.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Matt

Ahhhh no, SGT is known by many, at least over here simply from it's involvement in Gran Turismo/Forza Motorsport.

The drivers in SGT are marketed a shedload, treated as celebrities over there and such, from what I've heard.

Just because they know the cars in game don't mean people know/care of the real life series. Just as majority that play those games really aren't into real GT racing in Europe.

It's difficult series to follow even if you want to, Japanese-only coverage (well until now, and even then you have to be bit of a nerd), hard to find info and only youtube to watch outside Asia. The broadcasts itself aren't that easy to understand either, I mean the obscucre sponsor names everywhere in the tickers confused the hell out of me when I watched the first time.

Super GT gets absolutely horrible coverage even in specialist sportscar press. It's reported nowhere apart from some random articles once a month about something.

I'm sure the driver marketing is good inside Japan (probably on the same level as SF???) but is it bigger than Lexus/Honda/Nissan + the rest? It seems to me a bit same as in V8 Supercars, where you have the driver fandom but also the bizarre Ford vs Holden shenanigans. Or maybe I'm wrong, I don't really know. But from the PR I've seen I'd say the manufacturer/corporal focus is still relatively big on that champ and not totally overshadowed by drivers like in NASCAR or F1

[Matt]

It's a bit of both, as I said, you wouldn't have a successful national series without driver marketing.

[Deleted]

Yeah my gut says 50-50

[divxx]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I wish I could take credit but its NISMO's doing. Though GTA are fully aware of it, I was talking about it with Bandoh last month at Fuji.

Thanks for the info. Did he seem excited about the attempt to reach a wider audience?

[TF110]

JPO kinda ruined the race for the title. I think people know exactly what Super GT is and would love to see more of it. If the Class 1 comes about, it needs cooperation from ITR and GTA to market it. If they do, it will be huge imo. They need to make sure people hear and see this series.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Matt

Much like any super successful series commercially, the drivers are the ones marketed.

The timing and scoring shows the car name.
The Japanese commentary usually uses the car name before they mention the driver name.

Sure right. You can go look at the PR for Super GT pretty much anywhere and it not only puts the car ahead of the drivers, sometimes it mentions the car without the drivers at all, in contrast to say NASCAR where it is generally "we sponsor this driver and oh he also has a team". Are the drivers marketed more than many other sports car championships? Sure, it's the top series in the country and they're pros, so obviously people care about Lotterer or Taniguchi more than Memo Rojas or Chris Dyson. Celebrities? Some of them are paid very well but it's not like they're getting widespread endorsement deals and mainstream media appearances.

The drivers' championship is the primary one like basically any series, the team championship emphasizes finishing consistency through bonus points for lead lap/lap down/2 laps down. Eg. the extra point that won Gainer the GT300 team championship came from GSR's massive weight penalty from winning the first two races costing them laps in the next two races. The championship doesn't have individual bonus points and it's rare for championship contenders to not keep the same pairing all year, so the driver's title is a fair indicator of ultimate team performance while the team title is kind of consolation for teams that may not have had the lineup to get the absolute best finishing positions but had a competitive, reliable car.


Commentary was a lot better than what I watched of RLM at Suzuka, although there was still moments like not recognizing Motegi's different pit lanes. Oliveira was only 7 points behind Rossiter and 1 point behind the eventual champion so you can't blame him for being involved, although we never got a good look at how sane of a move it may or may not have been.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

#23 had massive amounts of success ballast compared to most of the others around them in couple of last races, so it is not surprising to see them on top now with all of the extra weight removed for the finale.

The pole time is just 0,031 seconds slower than for 2011 IndyCar

It was actually faster. Indycar's pole time in 2011 was 1:38.3918 by Scott Dixon. Quintarelli set a 1:38.258, so they beat Indy by .133 of a second. This year's Super Formula pole time, in comparison, was a 1:32.321. I think it goes to show just how quick these Japanese machines really are.

[Deleted]

Think it shows the Japanese attitude towards technology and advancement, no mediocre performance outlines and artificial target times just for the sake of controlling it all. Not only do they have the second fastest single seater series in the world (even if spec) after F1, but also two of the fastest GT categories as well due to tire war GT300 outpacing other GTEs and GT3s around the world, and GT1s having been killed off. For national series that is quite something.

[J Jay]

I can only agree. Motorsports in Japan is still viewed by the majority of participants as a way to "improve the breed" first, with marketing, etc. concerns coming second. The well-established open tyre formula is something worth highlighting, because we know this accounts for the majority of the pace over DTM* (GT500) and GT3/E (GT300).

*RCE's feature on SGT mentioned that 2014 GT500 are down on downforce compared to DTM spec.

[Speed-King]

Not only do they have the second fastest single seater series in the world (even if spec) after F1,

They still have mixed engines, which has to count for something as well in this day and age...

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

They still have mixed engines, which has to count for something as well in this day and age...

It does, but it's the same as in IndyCar and no-one would call that league anything but 'spec series' (new aero kits might help a bit)

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I can only agree. Motorsports in Japan is still viewed by the majority of participants as a way to "improve the breed" first, with marketing, etc. concerns coming second. The well-established open tyre formula is something worth highlighting, because we know this accounts for the majority of the pace over DTM* (GT500) and GT3/E (GT300).

*RCE's feature on SGT mentioned that 2014 GT500 are down on downforce compared to DTM spec.

After they blew out the long standing lap record at Okayama they panicked about the cars being too fast for a national level track like Sugo or I guess Autopolis at this point and had them run the Fuji aero. They've been back to the rather ugly high downforce wings since Suzuka for whatever reason.

Thailand race suggested the impact of the tire war in GT300 isn't as large as expected, since the race was dominated by a car running bog standard GT3 Michelins. They are a bit faster than WEC GTE at Fuji but by around the same amount IMSA GTLM would be.

[Deleted]

I don't think the brand specific performance impact of tires can be read clearly on GT300 thanks to the ever changing GT3 BoP + JAF-GT300's counter act on that + success ballast. But surely having a proper tire war in general leads to better lap times than if there was stellar spec supplier like almost anywhere else.

I noticed they had installed asphalt runoff to one of the corners of Sugo since 2013 (IIRC it's thankfully still the only one on the entire track), maybe as request to the increasing speeds? Perhaps...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

After they blew out the long standing lap record at Okayama they panicked about the cars being too fast for a national level track like Sugo or I guess Autopolis at this point and had them run the Fuji aero. They've been back to the rather ugly high downforce wings since Suzuka for whatever reason.

Thailand race suggested the impact of the tire war in GT300 isn't as large as expected, since the race was dominated by a car running bog standard GT3 Michelins. They are a bit faster than WEC GTE at Fuji but by around the same amount IMSA GTLM would be.

It was a Porsche that was the fastest in Thailand that had no success ballast. Thats why it was so quick. Super Formula running a spec chassis is nothing new. Its like any national or pre F1 open wheel series. GP2, F-Renault etc.

[Deleted]

Think the difference in SF is that, like the ICS it's not supposed to be a ladder series leading up to F1 (or anything else), but rather aims to have it's own history and merits. The driver lineups support that as well

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by TF110

It was a Porsche that was the fastest in Thailand that had no success ballast. Thats why it was so quick. Super Formula running a spec chassis is nothing new. Its like any national or pre F1 open wheel series. GP2, F-Renault etc.

IIRC the Puma Porsche also had no ballast but it was not nearly as quick. But they weren't on Michelins either.

[carbsmith]

That car was rarely quick all year either. With all the variables between teams and drivers you can't really make a solid comparison even if the Otonokizaka 911 was there.

But completely uncompetitive cars don't suddenly start running away with races because of weight penalties, it shows that tire was at least good enough to race in that series, if not win championships.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

That car was rarely quick all year either. With all the variables between teams and drivers you can't really make a solid comparison even if the Otonokizaka 911 was there.

But completely uncompetitive cars don't suddenly start running away with races because of weight penalties, it shows that tire was at least good enough to race in that series, if not win championships.

You have normal GT3 performance balancing lottery on top of success ballast though, that could've been - and probably was -changed between Suzuka and Chang.

[carbsmith]

I don't know why you're acting like this is IMSA, the full season 911s didn't get any more competitive. GT300 2014 was the same as BES, next year SRO is doing a series specific BoP.

Actually as far as I know the only BoP change in the series this year was in GT500, unlike the constant nerfs to JAF-GT300 cars last year.

[Deleted]

IMSA? As if they were the only ones fiddling things.

I cannot bother to dig into BoP change details again now, but if you are suggesting that SRO didn't change the GT3 BoP in their own series at all during this season...