Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Brutal. Plus they kept the low, ugly, long nose of the current Dallara. Yuck! Oh well, at least they listened to the fans and have done away with multiple body kit manufacturers .
The road course version is the least ugly of the two. They look awfully slow and draggy. I was considering attending the 500 next year - not anymore. I wonder if Lotus (maybe Chevy) will use the lack of propietary bodywork as an excuse to back out of this mess?

What about Honda backing out?

Chevy is a lock because that's penske's deal and all they are doing is badging the covers.

Lotus we know how shifty they are and everyone knows dany bahar's scarface routine only has a scarce chance of surviving. Good luck with that.

Champcar rolled out the panoz dp 01 from start to finish in months and that was a beautiful car. These irl guys couldn't organize a rodeo in texas. How long has this new chassis thing been dragged out? For years. And still all they have is "artist's impressions". They selected dallara last june and here we are a year later.

[Jonerz]

I expected better from Tony Cotman. Use the Panoz DP-01 for inspiration, Cotman! Come on... the interlocking of wheels should be regulated out of the sport with horsepower and aero, not bespoke pieces of bodywork that make the cars uglier, and likely draggier. Does that bodywork even address the back-breaker gearbox? Pretty failed effort if you ask me. That nose might look a little uglier than it will next year because it is the current Dallara tub that bodywork is hung on, isn't it? And the fact that the ugly air-intake bodywork still exists tells me it must be a result of the tub that stuff is hung on... surely that won't stay the same. Hopefully there will be at least two bodywork options next year, and these aren't near final. Oh well, ugly work in progress thus far.

Chris

[bjohnsonsmith]

I know these are concepts of the new car but it hasn't gone down well. They should open the series up to other constructors, like Swift and Lola. Then teams can have a real choice of chassis and engine packages rather than piddling around with aero kits.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Well, that's a bit of an anticlimax. When you design a car for a spec series there's no excuse to make it ugly. Especially when you run a series where the look of the car has been detested by (most) fans for quite a long time. It looks anything but purpouseful. Why Dallara? The contract was theirs from the start, especially with the Indiana factory to sweeten the deal. But hey, at least the Delta Wing is long buried and forgotten

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Why Dallara? The contract was theirs from the start, especially with the Indiana factory to sweeten the deal.

A big mistake. The Iconic committe should have gone for the big play rather than playing it safe. As it is the new car, which is meant to be ready for testing in August, is being built at Parma.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

A big mistake. The Iconic committe should have gone for the big play rather than playing it safe. As it is the new car, which is meant to be ready for testing in August, is being built at Parma.

I suspect there were both local politics with the Indiana factory and previous relations behind the decision. It was (or should have been) obvious to any one that Swift and Lola has the same ability to produce a safe, effective race car on schedule based on their previous track record. If the choice had been between Dallara, DW & BAT I'd be more sympathetic but as it is I can't see how they're going to justify throwing away another decade (looking at their chassis cycle) of the sport just like that. I'm usually not a doom and gloomer and do not see IndyCar failing in the very near future but I can't see this chassis taking us all the way to 2021.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

I suspect there were both local politics with the Indiana factory and previous relations behind the decision. It was (or should have been) obvious to any one that Swift and Lola has the same ability to produce a safe, effective race car on schedule based on their previous track record. If the choice had been between Dallara, DW & BAT I'd be more sympathetic but as it is I can't see how they're going to justify throwing away another decade (looking at their chassis cycle) of the sport just like that. I'm usually not a doom and gloomer and do not see IndyCar failing in the very near future but I can't see this chassis taking us all the way to 2021.

You make some good points. Regarding the new car and the negative response it's been met with both Dallara and IndyCar really need to re-consider their approach. If this is going to go to 2021, then they will also need to consider an alternative chassis manufacturer or manufacturers.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

I suspect there were both local politics with the Indiana factory and previous relations behind the decision. It was (or should have been) obvious to any one that Swift and Lola has the same ability to produce a safe, effective race car on schedule based on their previous track record. If the choice had been between Dallara, DW & BAT I'd be more sympathetic but as it is I can't see how they're going to justify throwing away another decade (looking at their chassis cycle) of the sport just like that. I'm usually not a doom and gloomer and do not see IndyCar failing in the very near future but I can't see this chassis taking us all the way to 2021.

I'm not going to rehash my posts from last year but it was all about lining the irl's pockets to keep revenue coming in.

And all this is why the sport doesn't need to be in the hands of those in indianapolis. We've gone full circle back to the usac days of the 70's where the only thing that mattered was indy and the rest of the races were filler minutiae the series couldn't be bothered with. And where did that end up?

[Empty Box]

Uhhhh, All in favor of reviving the DP01 say I!

I!

I often wonder why they just don't find the blueprints for a late 90s Reynard. By far some of the absolute best looking cars that lack fenders. No coincidence once they dried up the series went with em!

Anyways, the road course car doesn't look that bad. Looks bad, but not bad enough to run away from the IRL yelling and screaming alone. The Oval kit however..... Something that ugly requires jet propulsion. Can't be that ugly and not have a jet engine in the back. lol

Bolt the current wings back on please, atleast those are positively ridiculous. Ugly cars drive away fans, look at how bad NASCAR got slammed for the CoT. Now, the old NASCAR cars weren't exactly sexy, but neither is the current Dallara.

Am I the only one who sees a Modern LMP missing the front bodywork and floor? Only instead of being good looking.... it's ugly as sin.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Empty Box

Uhhhh, All in favor of reviving the DP01 say I!

I!

I often wonder why they just don't find the blueprints for a late 90s Reynard. By far some of the absolute best looking cars that lack fenders. No coincidence once they dried up the series went with em!

Hey, back when the irl started it's long death march years ago to this clapped up mock up, they asked that boss at toyota if toyota would come back to the irl and he told the writer he had informed the irl if they brought back 1994 CART rules with modern safety updates, toyota was in. And the irl never got back.

[Alwaysfirst]

I hate both of these efforts! I was hoping for something much better than that. The main reason I was first attracted to American open wheel racing was that the cars looked different. They were low, wide and aggresive. They looked huge at the front & tapered away to the rear...or at least thats how they looked to me...& I was hoping for something either like that or really radical, which they could have had from either Swift or Lola. Instead we're going to be stuck with something that looks like an ugly attempt at a lower tier European formula car with a spindly nose & a fat, heavy looking backside. I was hoping we might see some inventiveness rather than a car covered with gimmicks, but no....and we still have that awful airbox, but now it's a fake one! Why!? I'd actually rather keep the current car than go to this new one. At least I wouldn't be disapointed every time I saw it race. I know this isn't the finished product but the core of the car is & that core comes from completely the wrong starting point IMO.... Just yuck!

[Félix]

The scary thing is that the Dallara survival cell is mandatory, and that probably included the crash-tested nosebox... and right now it's ugly as sin and it makes it pretty much impossible to design a pretty car.

At first I didn't realise the rollhoop air intake didn't need to be there since it's turbo... some marketing guy probably decided that avoiding a naked rollhoop was cooler than twin sidepod-mounted turbo inlets but I beg to differ!!

And what's up with the rear wheel cowling?? It looks like an LMP design that was not allowed to look like it has enclosed rear wheels and had bits erased in 5 minutes. If you want to be safe and efficient, the rear wheels will be covered. If you want to stay true to your (draggy) open-wheel roots... well design something better than that!

It's amazing, just when the IRL looked like it had momentum to get out of a very deep hole with THREE engine manufacturers, THIS happens!!!

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Félix

It's amazing, just when the IRL looked like it had momentum to get out of a very deep hole with THREE engine manufacturers, THIS happens!!!

Exactly!

I am amazed that they're letting this happen, I know they say this isn't the final version but they are obviously happy enough with it to make it public.

I actually thought that IRL had a chance to create something good with the teams, drivers and of course the interest from engine- and aero maufacturers but if they don't stop this I don't think there's anyway the series is going to evolve into something even half decent.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I can only hope Randy Bernard is listening to the fans because this has been nothing but a complete PR failure.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I can only hope Randy Bernard is listening to the fans because this has been nothing but a complete PR failure.

If he follows trackforum, there are a lot of people over there who like it, according to a poll they started yesterday.

Personally, I do not like it at all.

But this excercise was to show how different the "concepts could be, and likely will not be what the Dallara kits will look like in their final form

[gttouring]

I think it isn't showing off the new cars so much as proof of concept. The current ugly dallara can be made 3 ways ugly with different aero kits.
And the next dallara will be similar in that it will look different 3 ways around a fat slow awkward racing chassis.
the DP01s went to superleague or A1 didn't they? So as a spec series superleague and A1 are IRL sporting equivallents... randy you goofed not allowing other manufacturers

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

If he follows trackforum, there are a lot of people over there who like it, according to a poll they started yesterday.

Personally, I do not like it at all.

But this excercise was to show how different the "concepts could be, and likely will not be what the Dallara kits will look like in their final form

Well, there's no counting for taste.

I'd be interested to see the poll and read the various posts.

True, it is to show the different concepts but knowing Dallara's history, at the top end of open wheel racing, I have my doubts.

[bjohnsonsmith]

There certainly are some interesting comments on Trackforum and someone has removed the airbox from the road/street course car and quite a few people like it. Someone has e-mailed the pic to Ropin' Randy.

I quite like it myself; more in keeping with what I think fans expect to see. However Dallara could do more.

[jondownunder]

Far better instantly by removing that fake airbox.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

Far better instantly by removing that fake airbox.

It would also create drag if they were to use it.

[Thundersports]

The Panoz DP01 did indeed go to Superleague and 2nd generation A1. I saw a Champ car Panoz racing at Donington last weekend they really are nice looking cars unlike the total ****e i've being looking at here. Really have these guys got any sense or brain???

[bjohnsonsmith]

What's interesting about reading the posts on Trackforum regarding these concept cars and the posts here, is the Trackforum people accept these are concepts and not the final version but they are better than what's being raced now.

The biggest dislike most people have on Trackforum is the airbox. Without the airbox, it would be inkeeping with US open wheel racing as the engines were always turbos, with the exception of the IRL after they opted for normally aspirated engines, which despite the various denials, suggests race fans would like the cars to resemble those before the split.

[jondownunder]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

The Panoz DP01 did indeed go to Superleague and 2nd generation A1.

I don't think the Panoz DP01 had anything to do with the 2nd generation A1GP "Ferrari"??

But certainly the Superleague car shared the same DNA.

[christcc2]

bjohnsonsmith you're right. If you mention you like the characteristics of the Reynards from 1995-1999, you're scolded over at TrackForum.

That said, everyone is clamoring for a car (without outright admitting it) that has cues from what we know worked mechanically and aerodynamically (and looked fast), with an evolution to 2012.

Reynard, Lola, Swift and Penske knew what they were doing in the late 1990's. They were able to produce chassis' that out performed anything that IICS is using now.

Think about that. Over a decade ago, the cars performed BETTER than they do now.

Doesn't that seem backwards?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

I don't think the Panoz DP01 had anything to do with the 2nd generation A1GP "Ferrari"??

But certainly the Superleague car shared the same DNA.

The Superleague cars (DP07) are pretty much the DP01's with an airbox for the V12. I think (unless I'm grossly missremembering) that the DP01's went to a private owner who was going to start a new series in the States for them? Guy who owned the Atlantic series when it sunk perhaps, Green Grand Prix or something maybe?? But yes, the A1GP car has between zero and nothing to do with the Panoz. Was designed by a new team in the UK (A1GP Technologies) next to the carbon business that built the tubs. Design process greatly simplified by borrowing a five-year-old Ferrari F1 design to start off with.