NZV8's 2011/12

[on_to_it]

Icarus_nz - I have to take you to task here. You say...

"Its not simply about the number of cars on the grid. Hordes of Suzukis for instance make genarally lousey racing because there is a lack of race craft."

I am going back a couple of years, but there were a few very talented drivers in that class. Guys who could pick there way patiently through a field from the back row, avoiding tangles, and win outright. It's a shame you tar a few outstanding ones with the same brush as the inept (and there were/still are a few of them). Many commentators recognized those performances and claimed the Swifts provided very entertaining and competitive door-to-door racing (at that time at least). At Hamilton in 2010, the visiting Aussies raved about the Swifts.

I will concede that recently the class has not had the quality of the past IMHO.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Speedway is a format where the cars come out the gate as the last race is leaving.
Speedway is quite an entertaining night out and has a large fanbase

and it took 2 1/2 years to admit i was on the right path??


10 Jan 2009, 10:23 #11 smokin'joe
Racer

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 230



MSNZ need to go to a decent SNZ Championship meeting to see how to draw a crowd and entertain them.

i took the wife and 9y-o son to the SNZ Superstock Champs last weekend, their first proper speedway meeting, and they are both more than keen to go back, unlike their attitude to MSNZ meetings.Entry cost was twice that of an MSNZ tier 1/2 meeting, but was well worth it.

NZ SUPERSTOCK CHAMPS:
10 hours qualifying/racing over 2 nights;
36 races;
next class warming up while previous winner does his victory lap;
mainly decent fields with passing;
decent programme with several pages of kids "to-do's";
"dry" venue means no drunken ******s yelling obscenities in earshot of kids;

MSNZ TIER 1 (Levels):
12 hours qualifying/racing over 2 days;
21 races;
large gaps built in to schedule for track repairs/ vehicle recovery;
mainly small fields that are too scared to pass as the penalties are too high for 'aggressive' driving;


Drifting was tried here a few years back, but is one of the most boring forms of motorsport created, but: if there was half a dozen drift cars cars ready to scramble to put in a show between races, on parts of the track not affected by repairs/ vehicle recovery i think it would be a hit, likewise having some stunt riders/drivers present to fill in some gaps;
get rid of the "parade" laps/ laps of honour;
deduct points from drivers that don't attend PR events off track. wife and son dissapointed in the waste of time and effort for the few vehicles/drivers that bothered to do the parade through town and attend signing session.

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

What it doesn't have is the big money. Or lots of TV

correct on the TV coverage, but was good to see TV3 showing highlights recently.wouldn't say speedway dosn't have 'big money'. a top Superstock is on par with an NZV8/NZST to build and run, and full stands at main meetings are something TMC/NZST can only dream of . Woodford Glen probably gets as many spectators through the gate on a 'club night' as TMC get at Teir 1.

[Goat Boy]

Dad's in trouble again....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/7330...s-for-goat-man

[Icarus_nz]

Blueblood - If you had been following closely you would see that I have been a supporter of NZV8. Unfortunately it seems that if one questions certain aspects then one is by default lumped into the 'fanboy' basket.

I am excited by the positives the sport has seen in the last year.
I too think it would be great if there were two grids of 20 cars with some quality racing.
Its just I can't see how that can happen. There is no historical precident for it and the age of austerity is here

On-to-it,
There have been some OK drivers in Suzuki but not enough to make it genuinely interesting. The aim of a entry level one make series is to promote close racing where superior racecraft will be the winner.
The hype about these 'future stars' is made a mockery of when the likes of Hamish Cross comes out to play. Hamish is very realistic (if too hard on himself) about where he fits in the big scheme of things and invariably he dishes out a lesson.
Many of these kids should be in FF except for the way that class has been mismanaged and *******ised through self interest the last 15 -20 years

Joe,
To clarify - when I refer to 'big money' I ment in the form of naming rights sponsors looking for a return. There doesn't seem to be the same spread on the dirt.

Everything you say about the format is true and part of what makes speedway a good show. I'm sure this model has been looked at closely for many years by circuit people and yet it seems it isn't so easy to apply the same model directly. Why is that? There must be reason.
I'm genuine in asking that because it puzzles me.

What is being done is the way of market research? This is an area where I wouldn't mine my levies going. Anything that can get people on the bank is a good thing. Esp if some of those people decide to become competitors themselves.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Blueblood - If you had been following closely you would see that I have been a supporter of NZV8. Unfortunately it seems that if one questions certain aspects then one is by default lumped into the 'fanboy' basket.

I am excited by the positives the sport has seen in the last year.
I too think it would be great if there were two grids of 20 cars with some quality racing.
Its just I can't see how that can happen. There is no historical precident for it and the age of austerity is here

On-to-it,
There have been some OK drivers in Suzuki but not enough to make it genuinely interesting. The aim of a entry level one make series is to promote close racing where superior racecraft will be the winner.
The hype about these 'future stars' is made a mockery of when the likes of Hamish Cross comes out to play. Hamish is very realistic (if too hard on himself) about where he fits in the big scheme of things and invariably he dishes out a lesson.
Many of these kids should be in FF except for the way that class has been mismanaged and *******ised through self interest the last 15 -20 years

Joe,
To clarify - when I refer to 'big money' I ment in the form of naming rights sponsors looking for a return. There doesn't seem to be the same spread on the dirt.

Everything you say about the format is true and part of what makes speedway a good show. I'm sure this model has been looked at closely for many years by circuit people and yet it seems it isn't so easy to apply the same model directly. Why is that? There must be reason.
I'm genuine in asking that because it puzzles me.

What is being done is the way of market research? This is an area where I wouldn't mine my levies going. Anything that can get people on the bank is a good thing. Esp if some of those people decide to become competitors themselves.

Most circuit racing around the world is either an all day or a all weekend event.

Speedway is like a 20/20 cricket match, all over in a few hours and a weekend at the circuit racing event, is like a three day test match.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Joe,
To clarify - when I refer to 'big money' I ment in the form of naming rights sponsors looking for a return. There doesn't seem to be the same spread on the dirt.

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Everything you say about the format is true and part of what makes speedway a good show. I'm sure this model has been looked at closely for many years by circuit people and yet it seems it isn't so easy to apply the same model directly. Why is that? There must be reason.
I'm genuine in asking that because it puzzles me.

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

What is being done is the way of market research? This is an area where I wouldn't mine my levies going. Anything that can get people on the bank is a good thing. Esp if some of those people decide to become competitors themselves.

Originally Posted by Jerico

Most circuit racing around the world is either an all day or a all weekend event.

Speedway is like a 20/20 cricket match, all over in a few hours and a weekend at the circuit racing event, is like a three day test match.

but why??
why are three days required to run 15-18 races plus practice/qualifying??

all it does is add extra costs to teams/crews/spectators with extra motel nights/ meals etyc, whilst un-entertaining the spectators who are left twiddling thier thumbs for prolonged periods of time between races.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

The hype about these 'future stars' is made a mockery of when the likes of Hamish Cross comes out to play. Hamish is very realistic (if too hard on himself) about where he fits in the big scheme of things and invariably he dishes out a lesson.

Not correct at all Kemo Sabe! One driver I'm thinking of beat Hamish "when he came out to play", in particular and quite comprehensively, at Hamilton in 2010. Ask Hamish, he'll probably remember the Race 3 quite well.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

but why??
why are three days required to run 15-18 races plus practice/qualifying??

all it does is add extra costs to teams/crews/spectators with extra motel nights/ meals etyc, whilst un-entertaining the spectators who are left twiddling thier thumbs for prolonged periods of time between races.

Time to tune cars to the track for one.
Time to turn cars around between races. Three hours to turn an old NZV8 car around between races is not a long time, that's without any damage or problems.
Safety of the track and cars hence the time turning around the cars.
And the size and strength of your support classes makes a difference of course.

Speedway tracks are not 2.6 3.2 or 5km long and the cars don't reach speeds of 270-300 plus kph. So very quick to check the track is safe and clear of debris. I have been to race meeting where there has only been five to ten minutes between races?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Time to tune cars to the track for one.
Time to turn cars around between races. Three hours to turn an old NZV8 car around between races is not a long time, that's without any damage or problems.
Safety of the track and cars hence the time turning around the cars.
And the size and strength of your support classes makes a difference of course.

so they need to add an extra class or two as a gap filler ?? there are already "hotdog and chips" classes if someone wants to put in the arguement that the spectators need refreshment break

Originally Posted by Jerico

I have been to race meeting where there has only been five to ten minutes between races?

let me guess..... was it run by the classic racing fraternity?? where they have 200+ cars entered for the weekend, not 50-70 that Teir 1 events get

[socram]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Time to tune cars to the track for one.
Time to turn cars around between races. Three hours to turn an old NZV8 car around between races is not a long time, that's without any damage or problems.
Safety of the track and cars hence the time turning around the cars.
And the size and strength of your support classes makes a difference of course.
Speedway tracks are not 2.6 3.2 or 5km long and the cars don't reach speeds of 270-300 plus kph. So very quick to check the track is safe and clear of debris. I have been to race meeting where there has only been five to ten minutes between races?

There are tracks in NZ (and yes, mainly classic meetings) where they are extremely slick between races.
Part of that is due to track layout and part is a desire by the organisers to keep delays to a minimum.
Using an ATV to line tow a car to safety is not difficult at some tracks, very difficult at others. Having to wait whilst a flat bed truck lumbers its way around the whole track, just for a line tow is not efficient, ever.

Radio checks to flag points as soon as the last car is past is fast enough to establish whether or not there are problems so if the Clerk of Course allows race control to let the next group out once tail end Charlie is half way round, it keeps things moving.

We schedule 3 x 8 lap races an hour and if things go well, we can shift four races an hour. If there is more than 1 hour of delay during the day when nothing is happening on track, then that is enough for a practice and three races, by one race group in one day. It is also extra income and is likely to attract extra spectators.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by socram

There are tracks in NZ (and yes, mainly classic meetings) where they are extremely slick between races.
Part of that is due to track layout and part is a desire by the organisers to keep delays to a minimum.
Using an ATV to line tow a car to safety is not difficult at some tracks, very difficult at others. Having to wait whilst a flat bed truck lumbers its way around the whole track, just for a line tow is not efficient, ever.

Radio checks to flag points as soon as the last car is past is fast enough to establish whether or not there are problems so if the Clerk of Course allows race control to let the next group out once tail end Charlie is half way round, it keeps things moving.

We schedule 3 x 8 lap races an hour and if things go well, we can shift four races an hour. If there is more than 1 hour of delay during the day when nothing is happening on track, then that is enough for a practice and three races, by one race group in one day. It is also extra income and is likely to attract extra spectators.

Yes you are right it can work if the format fits. I don,t think you could push an nzv8-ST or SC race weekend into a one day race meeting without compromising the event, and not just for the puplic but the participants aswell. I like the two day three race format myself.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Yes you are right it can work if the format fits. I don,t think you could push an nzv8-ST or SC race weekend into a one day race meeting without compromising the event, and not just for the puplic but the participants aswell. I like the two day three race format myself.

so why does it need to be thre days/ three races ?? especially when there are only 1/2 dozen classes racing, some of which are combined.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Most circuit racing around the world is either an all day or a all weekend event.

Speedway is like a 20/20 cricket match, all over in a few hours and a weekend at the circuit racing event, is like a three day test match.

A bit off track, but IMO Speedway (prefer the Bikes) racing is hands down the Best Form of Oval racing on earth, not that Nascar crap. and the skills it takes to be able to go around dirt within just centimetres of each other is real racing.

Originally Posted by Jerico

Yes you are right it can work if the format fits. I don,t think you could push an nzv8-ST or SC race weekend into a one day race meeting without compromising the event, and not just for the puplic but the participants aswell. I like the two day three race format myself.

On track
I think they should Practice friday, qualify Saturday and Race on Sunday, its what the top racing series through out do, and its the best way to go for both V8 SC and the Supertourers.
As for the public. the racing is going to america.. and as nascar race one day of the week. they wont be used to the format that we use, 2 races on a weekend?

[sportsfan]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

I have $100 here that says after 3 rounds of next seasons NZV8s you will be eating your words in reguards to the car son the track and the entire meetings in general

I will take this bet Revhead. I will only take cash and not check. See you in Jan for the money

[sportsfan]

Originally Posted by sportsfan

I will take this bet Revhead. I will only take cash and not check. See you in Jan for the money

Sorry Revhead, timed out before I had a chance to finish.

Was meant to say are you brave enough to take this bet up for the 2012/2013 season. Given the strenght of the new NZV8 field, all of the support classes, named drivers etc it should be a sure bet. If we also take into account the fact that the V8ST are dead in the water, have no future because they don't have championship status, the racing is boaring, no one will support them because they all have the same engine, they race in Winter and it too cold for the public to go and watch etc then the money is yours for the taking.

Shell I make the check out to Kerry Cooper or Steve Richards.

LOL

[BlueBlood]

Sorry to butt in Sportsfan, as you clearly want some alone time with Rev, but as usual a ST fanboy has taken a few things out if context and run with it.

No one had ever saidV8ST have no future because they don't have championship status, but it is still a relevant point
My mates and I could hire the local kart track and the "championship" I won there would also have no status in the bigger picture.

Again, no one has stated that no one will support them because they all have the same engine, the formula is not all things to all Motorsport fans.

It seems ST fanboys can't accept this and feel the need to deride anyone who is not on board with this concept.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Sorry to butt in Sportsfan, as you clearly want some alone time with Rev, but as usual a ST fanboy has taken a few things out if context and run with it.

No one had ever saidV8ST have no future because they don't have championship status, but it is still a relevant point
My mates and I could hire the local kart track and the "championship" I won there would also have no status in the bigger picture.

Again, no one has stated that no one will support them because they all have the same engine, the formula is not all things to all Motorsport fans.

It seems ST fanboys can't accept this and feel the need to deride anyone who is not on board with this concept.

I think sportsfan was taking the mickey!

[sportsfan]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I think sportsfan was taking the mickey!

Sorry all, a failed attempt at humour on my part.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by sportsfan

Sorry Revhead, timed out before I had a chance to finish.

Was meant to say are you brave enough to take this bet up for the 2012/2013 season. Given the strenght of the new NZV8 field, all of the support classes, named drivers etc it should be a sure bet. If we also take into account the fact that the V8ST are dead in the water, have no future because they don't have championship status, the racing is boaring, no one will support them because they all have the same engine, they race in Winter and it too cold for the public to go and watch etc then the money is yours for the taking.

Shell I make the check out to Kerry Cooper or Steve Richards.

LOL

Can't find my monopoly set

Things have certainly changed re MSNZ since I said that

Make the cheque out to the ST's, I hear they have issues paying some bills!

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Can't find my monopoly set

Things have certainly changed re MSNZ since I said that

Make the cheque out to the ST's, I hear they have issues paying some bills!

Talking **** yea?

Dont start me on MPL being disbanded and fraud fine and budd starting up and still spending members money on a dead horse, while the other side spends personal money.

[Mr Revhead]

MPL Disbanded? You mean this one:
http://www.business.govt.nz/companie...mpanies/560324

How long does it take for the site to be updated?
Fark knows what's going on with all that. I certainly don't.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by sportsfan

Sorry all, a failed attempt at humour on my part.

Not at all. I got it, and Icarus, MP, GB, MP and a few others

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Make the cheque out to the ST's, I hear they have issues paying some bills!

What happened to not talking shy%e? Lasted all of half a day...

[Mr Revhead]

Refer to the CCC guy who posted recently....

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Refer to the CCC guy who posted recently....

????