[Online] Autosport Online (merged again)

[TerryC]

Yeah it sucks. We could only read a few sentences instead of the whole story. I'll send the disatisfaction email shortly. Crash.net here I come...

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
50,000 apparently.

According to an insider source its considerably less than that nowadays (ie around half of that figure!)

The fact is that the web has made massive inroads into traditional media and I'd guess that Autosport's decision is in response to this and to add further weight to their current, heightened efforts to draw people into subscription for the magazine.

Sadly the fact is that if you want a quality new gathering product there is a cost attached to it. Philanthropy can only go so far. Beyond that journalists have to earn a living. It's for that very reason that our own website decided on a subscription model when we launched it 2.5 yrs ago.

What it has enabled us to do is to have not only a full time editor news gathering and organising dozens of correspondents worldwide but also to have live reporters and photographers at most of the significant races rather than rely on press releases and PR material. I think its a difference which adds value.

Autosport should, I hope, realise that if they are going to charge for something that was previously free of charge, they should show where the added value is coming from.

I wish them, and everybody else trying to provide a quality service to race fans, well.

[JAG]

Thats it. I have finally given up on Autosport.

How Le Mans, with all of the British interest, cannot be on the front page, instead of yet another desperately dull F1 cover is beyond me.

As has been pointed out earlier, when there is NO F1 news of note Autosport still fills half the magazine with yet another Button interview, greatest F1 driver type article.

We've had enough, give us something new!

Its not as if Haymarket has not got its own F1 magazine!

A few months ago, there was an excellent article about the new GT supercars that will be arriving in the coming year. Classic names such as Maserati, Aston Martin, Porsche, Lamborghini are producing cars, yet the article covered just 2 pages. That was it, no follow up article or anything.

Just looking through some old Autosports from just 10 odd years back. Front covers, although F1 dominated, covered Sportscars, Rallying, touring cars etc. All very distinctive and interesting. Nowadays I have to look at the date on an issue as the covers are so damn similar.

[spider]

Am I alone in thinking that Nigel Roebuck is very dull too? His articles and write-ups are nearly all the same - Pro-Montoya, Anti-Ralf, Pro-Brundle etc etc. He uses the same quotes over and over, especially on that pants Ask Nigel section on the website.

I used to read Autosport avidly, but agree it has lost its way. I spend an eve with a beer whilst reading it, while before I'd read it on-off all week, but it's become too opinionated and is very biased towards certain drivers.

Maybe I'm the only person to think it, but it's like the writers feel the readers are interested in THEIR opinions, instead of just reporting on the races and news...

JAG I agree entirely with the LE Mans cover - that would have been fitting, as Tom Kristensen has completed a superb feat in 6 wins, but only a small caption pic was rewarded to him - PATHETIC.

JAG, just spotted your signature! Being a Palace fan, I must thank you for Dowie

[John McIlroy]

>Agree about Le Mans, Adam.
>
>In John McIlroy's editorial column on the index page >he even discusses the issue and uses a phrase >along the lines of "it has to be Michael".

Actually, in my second paragraph I use the phrase 'it ought to be Schuey' (NOT 'it has to be', which means something completely different') and then in the third paragraph, I state...

"But somehow, you can't help but be drawn into the romance of Le Mans"

...and I then conclude "Ultimately, Schumacher won his seventh Canadian GP without actually overtaking anyone. Kristensen's sixth Le Mans success came amid drama, intrigue, mechanical frailty and sheer dogged human endurance. Hence the image on the right" (cue the main image of the Audi drivers on the podium at Le Mans, not Schuey winning in Canada).

I don't mind people having a pop, or even quoting things they don't like, but at least get it right. If that's an example of the 'web editorial values' some folk seem happy to accept providing they don't have to pay any money, then I'm glad we're out of it.

John

[Adam43]

I think Roebuck is fantastic, I particularly liked his praise of Michael in the last one. Earlier in this thread someone wished Nigel would do the GP reports again (Mark Hughes needs to stop trying to conrtrive a link between the first and last paragraph IMHO). I do too, however the problem is that he doesn't want to anymore.

He uses the same quotes again, which isn't suprosing when he talks on the same subject, but the majority is about new points of view that have come about from a recent interview or event. I notice the same things again, but then we are fimilar with his work.

[John McIlroy]

Regarding the Le Mans cover, it is, I agree, a shame that market values dictate we have to feature F1 covers more than anything else. But as I've said before elsewhere on ten-tenths, we are a business and must survive as such.

I don't think it's a case of us not caring about Le Mans inside either. Find me another publication on the shelf with more than a dozen pages of editorial (nearly a fifth of the entire content) devoted to Le Mans this week....

John

[JAG]

Originally posted by spider
Am I alone in thinking that Nigel Roebuck is very dull too? His articles and write-ups are nearly all the same - Pro-Montoya, Anti-Ralf, Pro-Brundle etc etc. He uses the same quotes over and over, especially on that pants Ask Nigel section on the website.

I used to read Autosport avidly, but agree it has lost its way. I spend an eve with a beer whilst reading it, while before I'd read it on-off all week, but it's become too opinionated and is very biased towards certain drivers.

Maybe I'm the only person to think it, but it's like the writers feel the readers are interested in THEIR opinions, instead of just reporting on the races and news...

JAG I agree entirely with the LE Mans cover - that would have been fitting, as Tom Kristensen has completed a superb feat in 6 wins, but only a small caption pic was rewarded to him - PATHETIC.

JAG, just spotted your signature! Being a Palace fan, I must thank you for Dowie

Being a WIGAN ATHLETIC fan can I thank you for beating West Ham

[spider]

I agree with the comment about Mark Hughes. I believe his writing of describing the cars in action, while he stands track-side, is fascinating enough. I don’t see the need to discuss the image around him in a poetic manner. Just to explain the miss-en-scene in the first paragraph is enough!

I read Nigel’s column, and am pleased it’s up to 2 pages, but it does irritate me just how Pro Montoya he is, and I guess you can argue it’s because he’s a passionate man, but I feel a man who has as much experience in the business as he, could cover much more in his articles, other than just how great Brundle and Montoya are…ok, they’re good at their professions, but we know that, so tell us something we don’t know, something fresh.

Just an opinion. I admire JM coming on here and putting forward his defence in an eloquent manner. It’s all part of the fun of being in the firing line, you can either take the criticism or just dodge the bullets and put the blinkers up. Motorsport is a passionate sport, and will always strike up differing opinions - which makes it so fascinating...

Here's dumb ass here thinking Latics were Oldham for a sec, when I sent it my Assistant just laughed...so...oops...thought it'd spark a reaction anyway!

Well, that Graham you've just signed is an immense striker, would have liked to have had him down Selhurst...

[spider]

John, it's a fair point about Le Mans, and it really is very worrying just how many people from the general public don't know what Le Mans is...? F1 on the otherhand...

[Adam43]

John, thanks for your reply on the editorial inside the front cover. I thought that was where you were coming from.

As for Le Mans and marketing values, it intrigues me. F1 is so much ahead of any other branch of motorsport in terms of popularity, but surely once a year there is significant interest in Le Mans. After all surely you'd grab a decent percentage of the tens and tens of thousands of Brits who travel over to Le Mans each year? (I notice that Motorsport always have Le Mans on the front in the issue before Le Mans).

Also since Christmas (and not just in the run up to Le Mans) I think Autosport has a fair amount of sportscar coverage and news. And quality coverage at that.

[John McIlroy]

There's basically what's called a 'floating readership' (it's the same for any magazine). The 'floaters' will pick the mag off the shelf depending on what's on the front cover. And fair or not, the 'floating readership' for F1 is considerably larger than for WRC or whatever.

Yes, we do have a 'Le Mans blip' where we can see fans are well up for the race etc. But (and this isn't meant to sound cocky), we still stand to pick up more 'floating readers' through an F1 cover because the Le Mans fans are mainly already dedicated and have already decided whether to buy or not. It's not fair, and everyone in here would dearly love to have rally, sportscar, BTCC covers etc again - we have the back issues to remind us of the variety of subject matter of old, don't forget, and we all have our favourite disciplines as well. But business is business....

John

[JAG]

Maybe the F1 fans are dictating what should be in Autosport, because many, many sportscar, touring car etc. fans are going elsewere these days.

Even if the cover has to be F1 related, maybe you could promote other areas of the sport by pointing out the F1 links such as Herbert, McNish, Wilson, Firman etc. driving at Le Mans.

What I would really like to see is Autosport getting behind a few non F1 races a year, such as the Silverstone LMES race, and trying to drum up real interest in these races. We saw the impact Mansell had on the TOCA Shoot-out in 1993.

It would be good if Autosport could use the likes of Herbert and McNish, in conjunction with Audi UK, and have a big push to promote the race.

[Kicking-back]

Keep up the good work, John.

[spider]

Fair point JM. You've got to look out for the bottom line, as we do with some of our titles we cover here at Kelsey. Keep up the Champ Car coverage, as it's the only way I get to hear about the series now, given that I don't have Motors TV

[John McIlroy]

Le Mans does get more recognition than BTCC or Indy 500 - that's why we produce a supplement two weeks in advance based entirely on this one event and carry a dozen pages or so of analysis this week. Again, what magazine can you sit down and read with that sort of content the week after the race? And the idea of getting 'outsiders' interested in Le Mans through names like Colin McRae isn't lost on us either - that's why we had someone in Le Mans specifically devoted to hanging round the back of the Prodrive garage, waiting to speak to Colin before/after he got in the car. And he wasn't a pretty sight at 2am, believe me... (our reporter, that is, not Colin!).

John

[spider]

Given the patriotism that Euro 2004, and the boom in British GP sales, how about some sort of pre-
British GP cover mount with a racing snap of JB for car windows then JM? Obviously with the Autosport logo on it too

[JAG]

Originally posted by John McIlroy
Le Mans does get more recognition than BTCC or Indy 500 - that's why we produce a supplement two weeks in advance based entirely on this one event and carry a dozen pages or so of analysis this week. Again, what magazine can you sit down and read with that sort of content the week after the race? And the idea of getting 'outsiders' interested in Le Mans through names like Colin McRae isn't lost on us either - that's why we had someone in Le Mans specifically devoted to hanging round the back of the Prodrive garage, waiting to speak to Colin before/after he got in the car. And he wasn't a pretty sight at 2am, believe me... (our reporter, that is, not Colin!).

John

Sorry Jonh, edited my post, while you were replying.

What do you think of the magazine promoting a few non F1 events a year?

[Adam43]

That's a point. There was no Le Mans sticker this year I'm suprise Audi UK didn't go for that. The 220 one from '93 is still on the car!

[John McIlroy]

It's an interesting idea, and we've done tie-ins with individual meetings before, like the ticket offers for Donington DTM, for example. It's fair to say, though, that in other cases we've had our fingers burned in the past.

However, we do have tie-ins with series outside of F1 - for example, our media partnership with the British F3 series is soon going to yield a couple of really mega competitions - some of the best prizes we've ever had (alongside the Fernando Alonso Clio, for example). Things like that get series like Brit F3 a bit more page space, which is good.

We're always open to ideas, I guess, but inevitably it involves financial commitment on our part (either in terms of hard cash or in terms of advertising space) so it has to go past the suits. And then we're back to the bottom line again....

John

[JAG]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
That's a point. There was no Le Mans sticker this year I'm suprise Audi UK didn't go for that. The 220 one from '93 is still on the car!

And still on my bedroom window!

[Liz]

To subscribe to Autosport in Canada would cost me $500.00 per year if I wanted it in a timely fashion -- or to buy it on the news stand $8.50 per issue. Now they want me to pay $100 per month to read it on the website unless I've spent $500 on a subscription? Give me a break. Maybe they only want to deal with people in England. I hope there are enough to keep them going.

I've written them my dissatisfaction and will be looking elsewhere for my inaccurate gossip and TGF and Bunsen worship.

[Adam43]

This has now become a general topic about Autosport and motorsport in general. I think it will be better served in Armchair Enthusiast. Cheers.

[Kicking-back]

There's also a thread on this in Trackside which it may be worth merging in.

[Adam43]

Just to let you know, there is a thread about this in Armchair too.