2012 Japanese Super GT

[TF110]

They probably have clawed back some of that downforce lost, but not enough to compensate. It's a wonder they're only a couple seconds slower instead of 5 or more. Hopefully they're faster this year.

[Monkey Head]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Team MACH (#5) carried out the shakedown test of 458GT3.
http://ameblo.jp/team-mach/entry-11147849811.html

makes me even more no understand how Gainer has fail the deal of this car.

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by Monkey Head

makes me even more no understand how Gainer has fail the deal of this car.

Team Gainer is rich and competitive team.
A team owner's Keiji Tanaka is an entrepreneur.
(http://www.tana-x.co.jp/en/index.html)
Therefore, they cannot have failed in the deal of 458GT3.
Probably, they think that R8LMS Ultra is more competitive than 458GT3.

[BBSB]

Originally Posted by TF110

They probably have clawed back some of that downforce lost, but not enough to compensate. It's a wonder they're only a couple seconds slower instead of 5 or more. Hopefully they're faster this year.

Yeah since then they recovered some of the downforce lost but the cars are still not what they used to be. With the GT300 class now getting much faster for 2012 they need to do something to the GT500 to keep them apart from the lower class. Since the 2012 GT300 cars have become as fast basicaly as GT500 on straight line speed (they should now make as much power as the GT500!?!?) I don't think a '2 ranks' restrictor expansion (so far the only confirmed change for 2012) will be enough to make the GT500 cars distinctively more powerfull and to allow them to pass the GT300 cars "normally" in racing conditions (Aguri wouldn't want Mutoh/Koba in their car now).

I don't know how much of an increase in Hp a 2 step restrictor expansion will allow but in my opinion the engines (GT500) should make more than 550hp and the cars be about 50kg lighter (and more downforce) to make them stand out from the now fast GT300.

[TF110]

^That was what Samurai-san was saying earlier in the thread, or the last SGT thread. They might make around that much power and weigh 1050kg. But is that enough?

[aneesh99]

Samurai-senpai, any word on the drivers that are straddling the SGT and WEC line? I keep hearing Hiroaki Ishiura as another TS030 driver? And guys like Lotterer & Tréluyer, are we ever going to see them again?

[alexkiller8]

in my opinion the solution may be radical but simple. Engines are built with same specs (the nissan unit maybe not at all) so why not remove restrictors? gt500 cars would run with around 700hp, for sure new gt300 cars won't stay close.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

in my opinion the solution may be radical but simple. Engines are built with same specs (the nissan unit maybe not at all) so why not remove restrictors? gt500 cars would run with around 700hp, for sure new gt300 cars won't stay close.

Because they are (or at least were) trying to unify the GT500 regs with DTM?

[BBSB]

Originally Posted by TF110

^That was what Samurai-san was saying earlier in the thread, or the last SGT thread. They might make around that much power and weigh 1050kg. But is that enough?

If they would make 550hp and weight 1050kg and keep current aero rules... no, that would not be enough. However, if they go back to the type of aero they used before 2009 that would be more than enough, as this alone makes a big difference.

If they keep current aero, then at least the engines should make no less than 600hp (while weighing 1050kg), in my view.


PS: I actually think these cars (GT500) during the JGTC years, in the 90's until early 00's produced arround this much (600hp) power. You only have to check some of the videos from those years on youtube, the cars were noticeably faster on the straights and acceleration (they only lacked downforce). No matter how many deny it on this board (no one presents facts) they were simply much more powerful than 500hp. The confirmation was when I read a racing driver (unfortunately I don't remember if it was a SGT driver) say that the GT500 cars used to make much more power and "they have been gradually reducing power", I can't remember if he said they were 600hp before. Now this interview was from arround 2005 so we know that at least from 2005 the GT500 have been making arround 500hp.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by BBSB

PS: I actually think these cars (GT500) during the JGTC years, in the 90's until early 00's produced arround this much (600hp) power. You only have to check some of the videos from those years on youtube, the cars were noticeably faster on the straights and acceleration (they only lacked downforce). No matter how many deny it on this board (no one presents facts) they were simply much more powerful than 500hp. The confirmation was when I read a racing driver (unfortunately I don't remember if it was a SGT driver) say that the GT500 cars used to make much more power and "they have been gradually reducing power", I can't remember if he said they were 600hp before. Now this interview was from arround 2005 so we know that at least from 2005 the GT500 have been making arround 500hp.

But weren't they production based back then? Also I might be way off with this, but I remember reading they became basically prototypes after cars like the Mclaren F1 GTR were allowed in and started dominating.

[BBSB]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

But weren't they production based back then? Also I might be way off with this, but I remember reading they became basically prototypes after cars like the Mclaren F1 GTR were allowed in and started dominating.

LOL
And what does that have anything to do with what I said? I don't know what you are trying to argue with that. Nobody here is saying if the cars were production based or not. I was merely stating a remark about the power of the engines of the GT500 class...

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

Because they are (or at least were) trying to unify the GT500 regs with DTM?

if i've read well, we are talking about performance enhancement of gt500 cars not about dtm unification

btw in mid late '90 the cars that ran in JGTC were a sort of national gt1 and gt2 spec, because when in 1997 the 1000km of suzuka was a joint race between JGTC and FIA GT, cars like silvia and nsx were gt2 while supra and lark mclaren were gt1. In 1998 the joint race there was again but were created the GT500 and GT300 classes for JGTC cars, but i think that in 1998 GT500 = japanese FIA GT1, GT300 = japanese FIA GT2.
Only in mid 2000 years GT500 cars becaome silouhette prototypes and no more GT spec cars.
Similiar destiny occoured for DTM cars that from super-tourism spec cars of late '80-mid'90 car became silouhette prototypes.

About powers, all actual gt500 cars use the same spec engines and same restrictor size! i don't know if regulamentation let use different ECU for each brand car or is a homologated one as happens in F1, but using different engine maps with the same restrictor size an engine can reach ex. 400hp (with more fuel efficency) or 600hp (with much less fuel efficency). For sure no cars in GT500 reach EXACTLY 500hp.
The same in GT300 where all cars have more than 300hp.

[TF110]

Hopefully we find out more on the new regs soon. When does the season start? And is there any more test dates coming up?

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by BBSB

LOL
And what does that have anything to do with what I said? I don't know what you are trying to argue with that. Nobody here is saying if the cars were production based or not. I was merely stating a remark about the power of the engines of the GT500 class...

I wasn't trying to argue with you, sorry if it came off that way, I was just tired from watching the whole Daytona 24 and failed to make my point.

What I was trying to get at is that due to the JGTC GT500 cars being production based and in a similar spec to GT1/GT2 regs of the time, they needed the extra power to separate them from the GT300s, then when cars like the Mclaren came in and proved competitive, the japanese cars evolved into prototypes, rendering the european cars uncompetitive for the class and losing the need to have so much power. This is of course, only what I think may have happened back then and like I said, I might be way off.

Now that GT300s are getting faster, the GT500s once again need the extra power.

[Japanese Samurai]

SGT Sepang test report (GT300) by AUTOSPORT web
http://as-web.jp/news/info.php?c_id=2&no=38790
Nissan GTR GT3 had pariticipated in the test.
Car Number was #52. (Team SHIFT's number?)
Drivers were Kazuki Hoshino, Yuhi Sekiguchi and Katsumasa Chiyo.
According to the team persons, the participation in GT300 class is trustworthy.

[ss_collins]

all actual gt500 cars use the same spec engines and same restrictor size

They are not exactly the same spec - the Toyota and Honda are similar (basically Formula Nippon engines - but they are modified from that quite a bit) whilst the Nissan is a different concept and is production based.

[alexkiller8]

nope, honda and toyota use their formula nippon engine builts with same specs, nissan had to build their engine ex novo (because doesn't supplies engines in formula nippon) but with same specs as well. Of course there are some differences between engines but the specs are the same.
You maybe still think that nissan in gt500 uses the VK45DE that was used in 2008 and 2009, that was a racing variant of a roadcar engine like, but the actual one (VRH34) is a racing born engine.

[ss_collins]

I suggest you read the December issue of Racecar Engineering

[BBSB]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

I wasn't trying to argue with you, sorry if it came off that way, I was just tired from watching the whole Daytona 24 and failed to make my point.

What I was trying to get at is that due to the JGTC GT500 cars being production based and in a similar spec to GT1/GT2 regs of the time, they needed the extra power to separate them from the GT300s, then when cars like the Mclaren came in and proved competitive, the japanese cars evolved into prototypes, rendering the european cars uncompetitive for the class and losing the need to have so much power. This is of course, only what I think may have happened back then and like I said, I might be way off.

Now that GT300s are getting faster, the GT500s once again need the extra power.

Thanks for making your point clear.

That may not be far off from the truth. I think they started progressively reducing power from the early 2000's as the cars were more and more moving away from production based and more and more into prototypes. This is in line with what a racing driver (who I forgot the name) indicated.

[BBSB]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

It means steps - a few MM a fair few more BHP. Hopefully I'll get the latest GT500 tech regs in the morning.

Any news on this collins? Please keep us posted.

[alexkiller8]

vhr34 A and B versions come from vhr35 that was used in indycars under infiniti brand-name. There is less than 1% of sharing stuff between these race engines and nissan road engines VH series.
Also the engine rv8k that toyota uses on lexus SC430, formula nippon and lola rebellion come from units used in IRL.

I can't say now if even the current honda HRG10 engine comes from the HR09E used in IRL too.

[TF110]

That's what I want to know, these new technical details on the GT500 machines. Hopefully someone has some info on it soon.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

vhr34 A and B versions come from vhr35 that was used in indycars under infiniti brand-name. There is less than 1% of sharing stuff between these race engines and nissan road engines VH series.
Also the engine rv8k that toyota uses on lexus SC430, formula nippon and lola rebellion come from units used in IRL.

I can't say now if even the current honda HRG10 engine comes from the HR09E used in IRL too.

honda motor is the formula nippon engine.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

vhr34 A and B versions come from vhr35 that was used in indycars under infiniti brand-name. There is less than 1% of sharing stuff between these race engines and nissan road engines VH series.
Also the engine rv8k that toyota uses on lexus SC430, formula nippon and lola rebellion come from units used in IRL.

I can't say now if even the current honda HRG10 engine comes from the HR09E used in IRL too.

VRH34A shares the same basic block as the VK45DE. Ss Collins was correct. VRH34B is an outright race engine - with a new block that saves 6kg (initially in 2010) over VHR34A. Both are not from the VRH35 family. VRH35 (A,L & Z Version) is a fully stressed engine, while the VRH34 is not. The SGT regulation (Art9.1 GT500 & GT300) specifically mentioned that the suspension must work normally when the engine is dismounted. In this case, there is no point of having a fully stressed engine.

Both VRH34 A & B and the VRH35A shares the same 93mm bore as dictated by the regulations. The VRH35A (the Indy engine) is actually derived from the VH production engine. Only the VRH35L & Z are pure race engine.

And Nissan race engines are called VRH not VHR

[tbz]

GSR& TeamUKYO unveils Hatsunemiku 2012 unofficial BMW z4 GT3 livery.