No driver orders at Mclaren?/McLaren under investigation - Page 7

**Bononi** · 28 May 2007, 18:53 (Ref:1923131)

You know Joe... he could easily have won if...

**touringlegend** · 28 May 2007, 18:54 (Ref:1923133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus

Yeah, go and watch team orders in that instead. I distinctly remember James Thompson giving up a healthy lead to let Jason Plato win a race last year. So thats no better.

Off topic again, but you fail to mention that James Thompson wasn't competing a full season anyway.....

**Adam43** · 28 May 2007, 18:58 (Ref:1923140)

So are you saying not every team order situation is the same?

Phoenix1 · 28 May 2007, 19:01 (Ref:1923143)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe rossi

You people are hilarious sometimes....Makes me proud to be British..

All stirred up because Hamilton was so cruelly robbed of his maiden victory because those idiots at Mclaren forgot to fit the wings that would allow him to fly over the top of the mobile chicane that Alonso was creating..

Thank God for Knowsley...

Sure DC will lend him a Red Bull (yes sorry for that!!!)

Problem is rules are rules. Don't think Ron ever said there where team orders in terms of who was in front of who, just to slow down mind! Um...

Sodemo · 28 May 2007, 19:05 (Ref:1923146)

I think Lewis' car was set up badly for the race, he had way too much oversteer at any and every corner, he just seemed to be fighting the car the whole time, which isn't quick.

I don't think Lewis was faster than Alonso on Sunday, for whatever reason.

I do think its bad in a sense that McLaren used team orders, I like to see drivers racing.
You can be sure that if it were Williams, that they would have been allowed to race each other.

brands · 28 May 2007, 19:26 (Ref:1923166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monster

You can be sure that if it were Williams, that they would have been allowed to race each other.

Up to which pitstop ?

Isn't that why JPM left Williams because of having to hold station with Ralf ?

Knowlesy · 28 May 2007, 20:05 (Ref:1923200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monster

You can be sure that if it were Williams, that they would have been allowed to race each other.

Oh sure, yeah.

Sev · 28 May 2007, 20:14 (Ref:1923211)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulc

Interesting how Hamilton made no attempt off the grid to have a go at Alonso,maybe cos the team orders oops "strategy" only allowed him to slot in behind and hold station for 78 laps *yawn* when's the BTCC on again.

Ok, seriously, this just getting stupid now.

Frankly, I can barely believe your doing anything other than just winding people up at this point.

A discussion about team orders is one thing, but there is a limit.

Did the place get invaded by trolls when Hamilton started being successful?

maximus · 28 May 2007, 20:17 (Ref:1923214)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Off topic again, but you fail to mention that James Thompson wasn't competing a full season anyway.....

I know he was, but what has that got to do with the point I'm making?

**touringlegend** · 28 May 2007, 20:22 (Ref:1923218)

I'd have thought it'd have been obvious, Thompson (minus a miracle) didn't stand a cat in hell's chance of winning the championship, whereas most F1 drivers are there for the full season anyway.

maximus · 28 May 2007, 20:26 (Ref:1923224)

But if someone is complaining about team orders in F1, yet watch the BTCC, which is also uses team orders, then why try and say that one is better than the other? The Thompson one was an example, but the argument could be that why should he give up his hard fought (dominant at one point too) win for someone else, whether he is competing in just one race that year or 20? After all, he was allowed to win twice at Brands.

**touringlegend** · 28 May 2007, 20:32 (Ref:1923228)

Well I do see your point, and thankfully it only happens in the BTCC very rarely, which was my point as the team set up last year led to extraordinary circumstances, where letting a part time driver take the most points is a waste.

Ferrari certainly have a lot to answer for, although it did happen before then..

JohnSSC · 28 May 2007, 20:41 (Ref:1923232)

Stop it! Oh please, Stop it!! I am laughing too hard!!!

Now, JohnSSC is thinking back a few years when the evil Hun (alias TGF, aka Michael Schumacher) was winning left, right and center. Not having St Lewis to bang on about, many Forum regulars were banging on about how poor Rubens wasn't getting a chance and that the World-Wide Sinister Ferrari Conspiracy (aided and abetted by the FIA) was responsible for keeping Rubens down due to team orders and those mysterious clauses in Michael's contract. Word on the street here was that REAL F1 teams like McLaren let their drivers race in a very sporting, pip-pip, cheerio stiff-upper lip proper British sort of way...if only Michael and RB drove for Mc, then Michael would get his comeuppance.

Fast forward to 2007. Kimi seemingly cannot generate enough interest in showing Massa who is who so now the world is focused on how St. Lewis is being robbed what with the Vicious Ron Dennis instituting Team Orders. Of course this proves that RD is Evil and not at all sporting in a pip-pip cheerio stiff upper lip, British sort of way like the other teams!!

Oh gosh, this is hilarious! Almost as good as Deeks6's summary!

Here is how it looked to me: Alonso (aka: TSF) taught St. Lewis that you can go around Monaco rather quickly without flinging the car about like a pinball on acid. The boy is talented and imho, lucky that his assorted "brushes" of the Armco didn't land him a nice afternoon's walk back to McLaren HQ.

When St. Lewis learns how to drive the car to maximize what it can do for him instead of flinging it about, then he will be a force. In the meantime, Alonso (TSF) is going to be giving more, rather than fewer driving lessons to the lad like he gave to him Sunday.

Knowlesy · 28 May 2007, 20:42 (Ref:1923234)

It is not rare in the BTCC at all. It's not rare in any motorsport.

Some do apply it more subtly than others.

**Bononi** · 28 May 2007, 20:54 (Ref:1923242)

[offtopic]
TSF - that shall be thy name !!!

Thanks John
[/offtopic]

Alpha Charlie 6 · 28 May 2007, 21:08 (Ref:1923252)

Does nobody remember the Senna versus Mansel battle at Monaco?

Hamilton would just not been able to pass Alonso...and it all would have ended in tears if he had tried.

chillibowl · 28 May 2007, 21:12 (Ref:1923258)

not sure if its been mentioned yet, but what are peoples thoughts/recollections of OZ 1998? where the McLaren's were the class of the field and they waved Hakkinen past Coulthard in the final stages giving MH his first win on the way to WDC that year.

similar or dissimalr to this weekend?

iirc, DC has since said that it was team orders.
if true Ron's memory must be fading if he expects people to believe that his team has never done anything like this before.

Knowlesy · 28 May 2007, 21:17 (Ref:1923261)

Err, Ron referred to that very incident in a link earlier in this thread...

chillibowl · 28 May 2007, 21:34 (Ref:1923276)

found it, here. http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=109

was not aware of that explanation. too bad he cant use it again

**Adam43** · 28 May 2007, 21:43 (Ref:1923281)

Commentary on that incident from the time: http://atlasf1.autosport.com/98/aus/gebbie.html

Sodemo · 28 May 2007, 21:47 (Ref:1923284)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brands

Up to which pitstop ?

Isn't that why JPM left Williams because of having to hold station with Ralf ?

I don't remember the specific situation your describing.

But if you are referring to France 2003 then if I recall, it was an inter team battle which allowed Ralf to get ahead of Juan at the pitstops, by pitting Ralf early (or was it later - I forget).

Montoya was miffed as he was leading the championship at that point and felt that he should have been in front. Logically in this situation if you were to apply the McLaren or Ferrari approach, Montoya would have been allowed to win.

**Adam43** · 28 May 2007, 21:54 (Ref:1923286)

For the record. It was a change in the lap that Ralf stopped which annoyed Montoya, basically it allowed Ralf to respond to Montoya's stop and negate any advantage Montoya had. Montoya was not leading the championship. AFAIK he never has lead the championship. The closest he came to was after Hungary later in the year.

Marbot · 28 May 2007, 22:18 (Ref:1923293)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha Charlie 6

Does nobody remember the Senna versus Mansel battle at Monaco?

Yes,he did try didn't he.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha Charlie 6

Hamilton would just not been able to pass Alonso...and it all would have ended in tears if he had tried.

Shame that there wasn't another scheduled pit stop.

deeks6 · 28 May 2007, 22:45 (Ref:1923311)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

For the record. It was a change in the lap that Ralf stopped which annoyed Montoya,

And Juan is normally so hard to upset too ...

Marbot · 28 May 2007, 23:45 (Ref:1923330)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

F1 is not a sport. It is big business.

Not wrong there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

Note: McLaren are a 'Team'.
The 'Team' is in business to win races.
The 'Team' is in business to win the Constructors Title.
How they do it is their business.

Again,not wrong,even just five races in there's just too much at stake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

End of discussion!

Apparently not.

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