The Great Debate - Is Drifting motorsport?

[Jacko44]

If you're versing other cars in racing-like competition... it's motorsport

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by Jacko44

If you're ... versing other cars in racing-like competition it's motorsport

Are you saying rallying isn't motorsport then?
Motorsport = competitive competition in vehicles
Motorracing = versing other cars in racing-like competition
End of

[duke_toaster]

Or, my preffered definiton

Motorsport = a competition between participants in motor vehicles in which they compete to either complete a set course in the fastest time, be it simulatinously or separatly against the clock.

As there is no right in a judged sport, it can't really and IMO shouldn't be FIA or MSA sanctioned.

[Al Weyman]

I think VXR has a good point, if its using motors and is a sport then its motorsport surely whether you approve or not. And VXR I hope its a rear wheel drive Monaro you use for drifting because I watched some muppets in the paddock car park at Silverstone the other week tryingto 'drift' and XR3 and somehow it just did not work, wonder why? :-)

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I think VXR has a good point, if its using motors and is a sport then its motorsport surely whether you approve or not. And VXR I hope its a rear wheel drive Monaro you use for drifting because I watched some muppets in the paddock car park at Silverstone the other week tryingto 'drift' and XR3 and somehow it just did not work, wonder why? :-)

Front wheel drives can't drift and neither can 4wds. BTW I don't have a Monaro lol wish I had.

[Al Weyman]

I know, I was trying to be sarcastic/funny! Monaro would though. :-)

[Nick101]

from my point of view drifting is a motorsport show.

its a motorsport in that vehicles are used and compete, but i see it as a show as in that it is there to shock and awe people.

its a hard activity/hobby to classify i think. a lot of people would love to say it is a fully fledged motorsport but the atmosphere is a lot different and if it continues to be marketed as a motorsport it will die off.

its a long the lines of monster truck racing or something like that, yes there is a competition going on but also it is there to make jaws drop to the floor?

is that a rubbish analogy?probably!

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by Nick101

from my point of view drifting is a motorsport show.

its a motorsport in that vehicles are used and compete, but i see it as a show as in that it is there to shock and awe people.

its a hard activity/hobby to classify i think. a lot of people would love to say it is a fully fledged motorsport but the atmosphere is a lot different and if it continues to be marketed as a motorsport it will die off.

its a long the lines of monster truck racing or something like that, yes there is a competition going on but also it is there to make jaws drop to the floor?

is that a rubbish analogy?probably!

Its not a rubbish analogy at all Nick. Drifting simply is a motorsport but of a different sort to the usual

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Or, my preffered definiton

Motorsport = a competition between participants in motor vehicles in which they compete to either complete a set course in the fastest time, be it simulatinously or separatly against the clock.

As there is no right in a judged sport, it can't really and IMO shouldn't be FIA or MSA sanctioned.

How about motorsport = compeitive sport in vehicles

[Nick101]

good glad people got the analogy.

i often wonder how people involved in "normal" motorsport. regard drifting, i often see lots of club racers saying " oh yeh i can do that" but really its a complete different driving style. most race/rally guys who come along to drift events often find themselves struggling due to having to unlearn their own techniques.

i currently am one of the organisers and judges of the eurodrift pro/am championship. www.eurodrift.com and it is always interesting to read/hear how racers and rallydrivers and fans of traditional motorsport think of it.


a lot of people think it is daft or chavvy, but well thats there loss. i myself never think motorsport should be marketed as a traditional motorsport. it just won't work in this country i think there is too much of a stigma attached to it. i think other championships who do are marketing this way are making a mistake or at least in for a very long wait.

aside from all that, its brilliant fun in cars with a competitive yet friendly atmosphere so why should we have to label everything. .

[silver bullet]

Hi Nick and welcome to Ten-Tenths.
I like you're analogy

I think there are a couple of reasons why Drifting has struggled to be taken seriously by certain sections of British motorsport.
Firstly films like Fast & Furious Tokyo drift, and the boy racers in Tesco car parks, with there maxed up cars. The general public associate this, and the cruise scene with Drifting.

Secondly. There is a lot of elitism in UK motorsport. Many people look down there noses at any form of minority or alternative motorsport, whether it be Drifting, Oval Racing, Off Roading, etc, etc. When in reality the people involved in these disciplines approach there chosen form of motorsport with as much professionalism, pride and enthusiasm as any single seater or tin-top racer.

I think anyone who criticises Drifting, without seeing it first hand, should make the effort to go along to a Drift Meeting. I think you would be amazed at the level of skill, the professionalism and the competitive atmosphere. Also you would be surprised at the size of the crowd, and the buzz around the place. It's totally different to your average circuit race meeting.

[Jacko44]

Originally Posted by Captain VXR

Are you saying rallying isn't motorsport then?
Motorsport = competitive competition in vehicles
Motorracing = versing other cars in racing-like competition
End of

If you're versing other cars.............. doesn't have to be at the same time.... hmmm dug meself a hole there

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

Hi Nick and welcome to Ten-Tenths.
I like you're analogy

I think there are a couple of reasons why Drifting has struggled to be taken seriously by certain sections of British motorsport.
Firstly films like Fast & Furious Tokyo drift, and the boy racers in Tesco car parks, with there maxed up cars. The general public associate this, and the cruise scene with Drifting.

Secondly. There is a lot of elitism in UK motorsport. Many people look down there noses at any form of minority or alternative motorsport, whether it be Drifting, Oval Racing, Off Roading, etc, etc. When in reality the people involved in these disciplines approach there chosen form of motorsport with as much professionalism, pride and enthusiasm as any single seater or tin-top racer.

I think anyone who criticises Drifting, without seeing it first hand, should make the effort to go along to a Drift Meeting. I think you would be amazed at the level of skill, the professionalism and the competitive atmosphere. Also you would be surprised at the size of the crowd, and the buzz around the place. It's totally different to your average circuit race meeting.

I agree 100% I went to EDC Silverstone and it was fab and action and tenseness was on a par with the btcc. Its a shame Maz (EDC commentater) got his flags mixed up, annoying the group of Poles who were probably the best fans where I was and certainly were the tidiest. Plus at EDC events you get Time Attack, a sport where heavily tuned cars do battle with hot laps an the cars represent renowned tuning companies in the pro class eg Reyland, Norris Designs and the club challenge for less extreme cars normally privatly owned.

Warning, what follows is a rant and does not necessarily represent the opinions of Ten-Tenths. (To be honest, it probably doesn't even represent the opinions of the poster when they aren't ranting.) If you think drifting is easy get yourself to an EDC licensing day and you'll get squat. The organisers of Eurodrift (Drift UK) and the EDC organisers have been in the sport way before f&f td so they aint some profit loving jdm bummers We now return you to our normal ramblings.

[thejester]

What a fascinating thread!

Well, it must be, as I've sat here and read 11 pages of posts.

Here in NZ, drifting is growing incredibly quickly. Thanks a great deal, I believe to the proximity of Japan and their well-priced, easily modd-able cars. Japan being arguably the spiritual home of drifting.

I have to say, while I am absolutely certain that by my definition, it's a sport, I often get bored and change channel when it comes on in the middle of my favourite weekend motorsport show. Although I'd happily watch it in the flesh, though more for the spectacle than the competition. On tv, it's a little dry, despite the feverish commentary style that seems to accompany it. For a while we saw some of the Japanese competition, which has clearly a high degree of financial backing, and that was somewhat more exciting.

I think the style of driving clearly requires a great deal of skill, but the competition format doesn't really do it for me. Rather than the short paired runs, I'd like to see longer individual runs to enable me to see, appreciate and compare the styles of the drivers. More of an x-games style format. Perhaps even a large course with various corners and soft obstacles to skim, with freedom to choose and create 'drift runs'. I think the present format straddles the fence, rather uncomfortably, between a head-to-head race and a more expressive/style contest.

[Calorus]

Originally Posted by thejester

What a fascinating thread!

Well, it must be, as I've sat here and read 11 pages of posts.

Here in NZ, drifting is growing incredibly quickly. Thanks a great deal, I believe to the proximity of Japan and their well-priced, easily modd-able cars. Japan being arguably the spiritual home of drifting.

I have to say, while I am absolutely certain that by my definition, it's a sport, I often get bored and change channel when it comes on in the middle of my favourite weekend motorsport show. Although I'd happily watch it in the flesh, though more for the spectacle than the competition. On tv, it's a little dry, despite the feverish commentary style that seems to accompany it. For a while we saw some of the Japanese competition, which has clearly a high degree of financial backing, and that was somewhat more exciting.

I think the style of driving clearly requires a great deal of skill, but the competition format doesn't really do it for me. Rather than the short paired runs, I'd like to see longer individual runs to enable me to see, appreciate and compare the styles of the drivers. More of an x-games style format. Perhaps even a large course with various corners and soft obstacles to skim, with freedom to choose and create 'drift runs'. I think the present format straddles the fence, rather uncomfortably, between a head-to-head race and a more expressive/style contest.

The X-games comment says it all:

Drifting is to Racing, as
Figure Skating is to Speed Skating, as
Freestyle *MX is to *Motorcross, as
Showjumping is Horse racing.

It IS a motorsport because it is a sport, and it is automotive.

[minimangler]

Not come here before, so hello.

yes, it is motorsport; its a competition involivng cars.

thumbs up from me

[crofty]

Go on then, I'll chip my 2p's in.

It's certainly a competition in that dancing is, or figureskating is and I don't deny it takes a lot of skill to do. I think what gets people's backs up is that there's no definite measureable result, it's based on judge's opinoins, whereas racing, highjump, javelin, etc. have a definite output, times, height, measured distance.

Up unil recently within the world of motorsport there's only ever really been timed events, i.e. racing of some form, be it circuit, rally, hillclimb, drag, a million others.

I guess the argument arises in whether Motorsport can encompas something that isn't racing (which Drifting certainly isn't).

I believe it can.

[ScottyGibbs]

everyone seems hell bent on the idea that drifting isnt racing....

Do you not win a battle if you pass the lead car??? Isnt that racing? If anything drifting is the hardest form of racing. Passing is rare and anyone who can pull it off is a hero. If theres no passing, it comes down to the best execution over the course!
Keep in mind that a pass in drift only counts if done under drift conditions, no straightening and gassing it past ur opponent.

I drove in a motorkhana or as some ppl call em autotest recently and used a drift style to link the course's. Not only was it fast, but I beat a few ppl in my class who have been doing these events since before my birth!

Before everyone is so keen to compare it to figureskating or the alike... get ur backside in a drift car and give it a go. Id say majority of drifters have more skills than your average club level racer.

Yes I drift, yes I wear a baseball cap and no I dont drift on the street!! but if you think that the street element will ruin it for everyone, take a look at drag racing... that started from a street sport much like drift did in Japan... There will always be knobs out there that will try and use the street as a track, regardless of whats in fashion at the time..

[orrmate]

My view is similar to one already posted earlier in the thread. The way I've always looked at drifting is that its Motorsport, because it uses engine-power and it is a competition, but not Motor Racing, because the cars aren't physically racing each other. I also consider Rallying and Hillclimbing to be Motorsport rather than Motor Racing for the same reason (which probably won't be a popular view with some people).

Just one way of looking at it I suppose. To say it isn't MotorSport is unfair imo, especially if Freestyle motocross is considered Motorsport.

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by ScottyGibbs

everyone seems hell bent on the idea that drifting isnt racing....

Do you not win a battle if you pass the lead car??? Isnt that racing? If anything drifting is the hardest form of racing. Passing is rare and anyone who can pull it off is a hero. If theres no passing, it comes down to the best execution over the course!
Keep in mind that a pass in drift only counts if done under drift conditions, no straightening and gassing it past ur opponent.

I drove in a motorkhana or as some ppl call em autotest recently and used a drift style to link the course's. Not only was it fast, but I beat a few ppl in my class who have been doing these events since before my birth!

Before everyone is so keen to compare it to figureskating or the alike... get ur backside in a drift car and give it a go. Id say majority of drifters have more skills than your average club level racer.

Yes I drift, yes I wear a baseball cap and no I dont drift on the street!! but if you think that the street element will ruin it for everyone, take a look at drag racing... that started from a street sport much like drift did in Japan... There will always be knobs out there that will try and use the street as a track, regardless of whats in fashion at the time..

I'd say the EDC drivers are close to BTCC drivers skill wise especially Phil M, Maciej, Brett C, Mark L, Tony G and Mark J

[royalwithcream]

Hello, I've just joined the site and had a quick look through this thread. I drift myself (BDC) and the sport growing and being taken seriously is an area I've always been interested in.
Regardless of what you call it its growing at a massive rate, its an activity thats in a car and (ideally!) on a race track! Due to its accessibility at the lower levels its bringing in a huge amount of new participants and fans which is exactly what the motorsports industry needs in this time of heavy noise restrictions and unapproval of 'unsociable' machines by Joe Public.
Its a general trend across all sporting activities that people are tending towards more so called 'extreme' sports (a term I don't agree with after doing many all my life) that don't involve competition or racing against the clock, and are more about the actual feel of the sport such as surfing, climbing,etc. Drifting is motorsports for this generation.

IMO Drifting just needs to grow until there's enough people able to drift on full size tracks to run regular drift specific track days and it'll be accepted for what it is. Arguments about motorsports being a race against each other, against the clock, etc as far as I'm concerned are irelevent.

In most motorsports a complete amateur can get in the car and go out on a full racetrack with out crashing, drifting requires a lot more practice at less impressive smaller venues before the driver has enough skill to do this. Because of this many people in the wider motorsports industry only see drifting at smaller venues or they see lower level competitions held on slower and smaller tracks due to the difficulty in judging an event thats not against the clock.
The sport needs competitions to grow in both participants and financial backing, motorsports being expensive as they are, but my goal is to see full tracks being drifted regularly. I honestly don't think people could not take the 'activity'/'sport' seriously after seeing it done in this way?
Already this year Lydden Hill in particular has offered drift specific groups on their trackdays and Castle Combe has also opened the doors. Its looking likely that next year should see more tracks following this example as more people start drifting who can afford to do bigger venues.

Lydden Hill this year:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bwkYh5Qyg2I&fmt=6

I guess to try and make a point about all my waffle, drifting isn't only about what you see in competitions which can be hard to present in an accessible way. The sport is about the enjoyment of car control at speed and the adrenelin and fun you get from that. Contrary to popular belief you are still in control once a car has lost traction. Its the actual activity rather than who gets over the line first.

[royalwithcream]

Wow! just realised how far back this thread was last replied to!!

[westfieldbend]

i think drifting is motorsport - its a sport with cars competing against each other.
But it is just not my favourite part of motorsport!!

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by westfieldbend

i think drifting is motorsport - its a sport with cars competing against each other.
But it is just not my favourite part of motorsport!!

You sir have a perfectly reasonable view in the same way that single seaters are motorsport but not really my favourite

[mrsweety]

Until is appears on here

http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/conten...sp?chapter=213

Then I'm afraid I'm on the fence

Sweet