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8 Nov 2010, 10:03 (Ref:2786905) | #151 | ||
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Sounds like Hunt's not overly happy with Mr Fernandes.
Quite surprising. But it's a bit of a better insight now. Selby |
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8 Nov 2010, 12:01 (Ref:2786975) | #152 | |
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When it comes down to the bottom of things, it's all about money isn't it? Even for David Hunt.
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8 Nov 2010, 12:17 (Ref:2786984) | #153 | |||
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And, without knowing the ins and outs of their situation, doesn't it rather seem that Group Lotus are taking on a little too much right now? Someone should tell them that they don't need to do absolutely everything all at once. |
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8 Nov 2010, 13:18 (Ref:2787015) | #154 | |
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spot on, mrs ralf. if fernandes steps aside, f1 would lose the rare thing - an enthusiastic businessman willing to throw his money into the motorsport black hole. for the sake of group lotus trying to become ferrari in 6 months. it's about time the malaysian government sent round some heavies to point out how dumb this is making everyone look.
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8 Nov 2010, 18:21 (Ref:2787166) | #155 | |||
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If you want to cite inspiration, then you have to look at Litespeed, who were the first ones to suggest bringing back the Lotus name, well before Fernandes And I'm not convinced by what David Hunt is saying. While he was entitled to protect the rights to the Team Lotus name while Team Lotus wasn't in F1, the game changes when you move them into F1. There was a good article by I think Joe Saward a few weeks ago which explained that actually they don't have the right to use the name in F1 Last edited by jab; 8 Nov 2010 at 18:32. |
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8 Nov 2010, 23:08 (Ref:2787347) | #156 | |||
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The discussion still begs the question of what happens to 1Malaysia if the Lotus brand is not available to them? |
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8 Nov 2010, 23:22 (Ref:2787353) | #157 | |||
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9 Nov 2010, 09:19 (Ref:2787500) | #158 | ||
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To me it sounds like Group Lotus have been a bit slack in their due diligence checks over what they were buying and what they were not getting as part of the manufacturer. The reality is that most manufacturer teams have always run their F1 operations out of a seperate business, similar to RenaultF1 (when Renault owned it).
It reminded me in a way of the time when Ford were well down the path of purchasing Ferrari..... until they realised that one of the main reasons for their interest in the intended purchase, the Ferrari Motor Racing operation, was an independant business not included in the sale. So Ford pulled out of the deal and built the GT40 out of spite almost, throwing money at it until it beat Ferrari and won Le Mans. |
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9 Nov 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2787567) | #159 | |||
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I can't find the article itself, though |
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
9 Nov 2010, 14:02 (Ref:2787583) | #160 | ||
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I know nothing about the matter but I imagine that Fernandez used the name as hype, the same way he could have used Brabham, Matra or Tyrrell. The thing is he never asked the right people before naming his team...
If you ask me, the way the team is leaded it doesnt deserve to use the sacred Lotus name. |
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9 Nov 2010, 14:17 (Ref:2787588) | #161 | |||
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9 Nov 2010, 15:04 (Ref:2787604) | #162 | |||
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How could Tony Fernandes have done a better job then? To be quite honest, this Lotus carnation has done a credible job given the limited time they had to prepare the car, and also compare them to how they were in 1993/94. I think you'll find there's not too much difference, performance wise. But they've done nothing to discredit or disrespect the Lotus name. Selby |
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9 Nov 2010, 16:02 (Ref:2787619) | #163 | ||
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i was skeptical at the start too - though majorly reassured when fernandes came on board after the whole litespeed shenanigans. ever since i've been nothing but impressed by the tone of their press releases, their constant expansion and staff recruitment drives and the fact that fernandes is still hanging around as well and just as enthusiastic as he was at the start. most of the doubt seems to be based on the fact that the money and ownership is malaysian - well, look whats happened with virgin/manor with british money. personally i don't care where the finance is coming from in this case - the jobs being done properly and it's going to be done properly as well. i've heard plenty of waffle and nonsense about motorsport in my time and lotus racing are backing it up with actions as well as noise. also many teams and organisations have owner companies that aren't named after the team competing. it doesn't mean anything, it's just a way of managing finance. |
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9 Nov 2010, 16:04 (Ref:2787620) | #164 | ||
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It seems to me like he asked exactly the right people - I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that David Hunt didn't initially want him to use the 'Team Lotus' name, so he obtained a licence from Group Lotus to call the team Lotus Racing. Then once he'd got the team up and running and established as a serious outfit, he went back to David Hunt to acquire 'Team Lotus'. If my interpretation of events is correct, it seems as if he's done everything right but it's now put some noses out of joint at Group Lotus because they appear to think they have a God-given right to use that name in Formula One. At this stage it's all politics, to a degree that's depressing even for F1.
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9 Nov 2010, 16:10 (Ref:2787622) | #165 | ||
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I've just read through last two or three pages of this and almost all I wish to do is second bella's two posts.
The only other point is that as long as the litigation stays over here I don't doubt that David Hunt's right to the Team Lotus name will be sustained, but if somehow the litigation process gets moved over to Malaysia then I think he's sunk. |
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9 Nov 2010, 16:18 (Ref:2787624) | #166 | |
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looking back at something else that's made people comment - i think the use of "lotus racing" in the press release from renaultsport and also even from lotus racing themselves would have been a bit of a mistake - the former would make the journalists go "ah ha, the contract is solely with lotus racing, so what happens when they don't keep the name", and considering that their future may lay in an art grand prix like commercial linkup with group lotus it'd be a bit silly to wind them up as well.
diplomatic solution - use name of malaysian owning company. indicates that no matter what goes on in the courts, the agreement with renault stands. until group lotus get a foot in the door and tear up the contract |
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9 Nov 2010, 17:06 (Ref:2787643) | #167 | |
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I for one was quite cynical about the Lotus team when the FIA announced that they would get the final slot, thinking that they were going to just use the name so they could get sponsorship and make their dream of going racing a lot easier.
But they have done the old team proud, even more so then the final years of Team Lotus back in 1993/1994, where it was clear that someone should just put the team out of its misery whilst going through its death-throws. It's just such a shame that Lotus cars/Proton have realised that they missed the boat with David Hunt and are turning this into a rather sorry and confusing argument for all concerned. I hope that it is Fernandes that comes out on top as he has shown that he cares about not only the brand, but also the history that cokes with it. |
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9 Nov 2010, 19:17 (Ref:2787714) | #168 | |
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My take on the whole matter now is that Hunt had the rights to use Team Lotus but Group Lotus had disputed it but had no legal basis for doing so.
Now that Tony had purchased the rights to use the the name Team Lotus the Group lotus decision to use $20 million of what is effectively Malaysian tax payer money to sponsor the Renault team (now to be called Lotus Renault) in an effort to stymie tony fernadez's Team Lotus is simply pathetic and unethical. Its just a bunch of sad people trying to use their money steal what is effectively not theirs from someone (David Hunt) who has the legal and proper rights to the property. I don't mind having two Lotus Renualt teams in F1, although it will probably confuse casual viewers but maybe thats what has to happen to sort the whole mess out. However if Tony is not going to fight Group Lotus or use the property he should give the rights back to David Hunt. |
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10 Nov 2010, 02:06 (Ref:2787876) | #169 | |||
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10 Nov 2010, 18:40 (Ref:2788202) | #170 | |
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[I]If it is not allowed then the FIA is going to have to make a decision about who has the legitimate right to use the name. That could make a mockery of the civil court proceedings. If I was going to give it to one I would give it to Fernandez. He has the legal right to Team Lotus, has also already set and run as lotus racing so has a precedent over group Lotus. The goup has no current mechanical input into design and construction so while the team may be called Lotus Renault the cars may have to be called Renault-Lotus.... or Genii Lotus...Genii Renault or Renault Genii ..... Lada Renault or Renault Lada if Petrov stays... The rest I think we do agree on, but I would be sad to see Group Lotus take the precedence on this. just as an afterthought.... When marlboro were into sponsoring anything that moved in F1 through their national companies we had Marlboro stickers on Onyx, Dallara, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, McLaren, Frank Williams (back in the Iso Marlboro days). There would have nbeen no objection to entering the cars as Marlboro McLaren, Marlboro Dallara, Marlboro Alfa Romeo, Marlboro Ferrari..... So why not four Lotus Renault's on the grid... or should the second team be Renault-Proton...... Last edited by Teretonga; 10 Nov 2010 at 18:48. |
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11 Nov 2010, 01:19 (Ref:2788367) | #172 | |
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sod that, the comment about marussia sniffing around virgin just below the main article is far more interesting...
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11 Nov 2010, 01:28 (Ref:2788370) | #173 | |
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No, FIA wouldnt determine who has the legitimate right to use the name, there's rarely anything legit about FIA decisions. Civilian laws are obviously more important than FIA regulations. But the civil court proceedings could potentially make a mockery of the FIA
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11 Nov 2010, 02:03 (Ref:2788377) | #174 | |||
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11 Nov 2010, 03:57 (Ref:2788393) | #175 | |||
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