2006 Australian GT Championship (amongst other things GT)

[iconic]

don't forget the controvesy regarding the mustangs in grand am cup... not very stock!

[Robert Ryan]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

So if they are both very stock series, why is it laughable they would be anywhere near as expensive as a 5 litre car.

D.R.T I do not have much of an idea what you are getting at.
I was comparing the Daytona Prototype(Speciliazed Sportscars) to V8Supercar costs. Chucky said the Grand Am Cup(Touring cars) were more developed than they were. I have no idea how all that relates to your statement above.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Chucky

The likes of Don Panoz is what keep smost sports car racing going!!

The last Grand Am Rolex series round had 24 Daytona Proto's and 28 GT cars. The Grand Am Cup race had 65 cars, none of which were "street stock" and all showing signs of having significant sums of money spent on them.

The DP field alone would run on a bigger budget than the entire V8SC field.

ALMS has had it's problems but mostly relating to the singular lack of a coherent rule book. Something which is vital to attracting manufacturer investment in proto production. The recent alignment of resg between ACO/FIA/ALMS should begin to put that right.

An alignment which is in danger of, if not already fallen apart because MC12's have been allowed into ALMS unpenalised as they are in FIA GT.

[D.R.T.]

I probably am confused, but I was working from this statement

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

They are a lot more stock than you think, I can assure you. The Daytona Prototypes are not that outrageously expensive., pretty laughable they would be anywhere near as expensive as a V8Supercar field.

In comparing the Daytona Prototypes to the Supercars, as stated both are stock based series, why would 1 be hugely more expensive.

Have I missed something, (it is late)

[Robert Ryan]

Yes, D. R.T. the DP's are not based on any Stock Sedans, the engines they use come from Stock sedans, but the cars are very specialized sports racers.
The costs are lower than running a V8Supercar team., unlike what Chucky asserts. The lower cost arguement is the reason Grand Am has grown.
If Don Panoz walked away from the ALMS series, that would be the end of ALMS. There France family and their other partners have managed to get a financially stable Sportscar series up and running. Quality of the racing? Well that is up to the individual fan.

[Falcadore]

The reason why Grand Am has grown is because the Frances continue to sink money into it. Grand Am reason d'aitre appears to be to kill ALMS. There's a very CART/IRL confrontation going on here that gets no attention and the protagonists don't speak in public.

[Robert Ryan]

Falcadore, that is also pretty correct. Both are very dependent on large benefactors, not the market.
But if the Frances walked away, I think there would some form of sportscar racing left(A PROCAR scenario), but that would not be the case with ALMS.

[iconic]

don panoz has walked away from ALMS, he has left 3 people in charge scott atterton is one of them i think? but i guess panoz does still put money into ALMS..? this is all OT...

[GTRMagic]

It talks to the need for a patron funding a category without an eye to making it a commercial success, and funding itself without external input.

ala PROCAR... ala TOCA...

[Robert Ryan]

iconic,
He is not doing the day to day running, but he sure is still pouring in the money.

[ff s conscience]

Ok, back to the title topic....

Who's coming to PI this weekend to see the first run of the re-hashed GT sportscars series then.....

3 Ferrari's entered, but I know one has already dropped out.

[abr944]

the entry list looks bare......we are not going cos the entry fee asked was about $1500.......wait till the 10th june and see about 35 or more cars in the vic champs as we saw at sandown....oh...did i mention the entry fee......$290....doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why the porsches will stay away in their droves.

[djt46]

It has been said that the people behind the Intermarque Series are fudging entry numbers to boost the standing of the series with CAMS. Putting big lists of entries in the program, even if many of those involved haven't acgtually entered certainly makes the series organiser look good but does little else, especially when people turn up to see all these Ferraris, Vipers, etc race and they are no shows. This country needs a soundly based sports car racing series that offers national competition, probably in 1 hour, 2 hour and maybe a super long distance race for all the sports car entrants out there. and yes CAMS should stick to regulation and not commercial promotion!

[abr944]

welcome to the forum David....your comments are relevant and I am one of the names on the intermarque list also that didn't turn up at winton.....we had only just got back to the gold coast and the turnaround and being the end of the month, work comittments made it too hard to get back south.I wish i had gone cos I heard that it was great and lots of racing was had by all!
The intermarque challenge will be a sucsess one way or another cos the people behind it like John Good and others are determined to see us all race together in sports cars without all the #@%%#@%#% that goes on in the other series.
Plus the cost is about one third...YES one third of the other series for us porsche guys.
PS.dont forget that targa tassie was on and that consumed a lot of the entries.!!

[silver 2]

djt46 if you have a problem with what the Intermarque Challenge is trying to do ,why dont you put it to them?. I asked the same essential question and some of those committed to be there had some good reasons e.g. Viper was never listed ,Ferrari 360 GT - parts didnt arrive in time ,360C---- crash damage from Sandown, Porsches with engine,licence, etc etc. Daytona not complete, . I did get a reply so all you had to do was ask.Worth noting all the details were available for weeks prior so there is a degree of irony that everybody is now asking what entries are there for Phillip Is this week.They are not available. Why not?
From what I have seen and understand the Intermarque Challenge has a lot of support from competitors generally but absoloute opposition from CAMS,Porsche Challenge/GT group.It seems to be quite unfair to exclude such large numbers of competitors,which is why Intermarque was born . It was also pointed out to me that racing in one place or another does not mean that competitor supports the management of that series as racers just want to race, that is their overiding concern.

[abr944]

i have the pi entry list....22 cars...total...that means besides the porsches...only about 8 gt cars.......of that 22....5 to 6 will not show...go figure!!!

[D.R.T.]

Come on confidence, lets try and be positive. Which are the 8 GT cars?

Anyways lets try and be constructive about how we can improve GT racing in Australia and put it where it DESERVES to be.

So how would you Fix the current problem.

I am not intending to be niave and fully understand huge struggle to get this done, but if anything is to be acheived Cams needs to bring the Carerra Cup, Aus GT and Intermarue Challenge championships together. Use its management, competitors and sponsors to all aim at the same thing. Imagine the possibilities.

[silver 2]

DRT you need to note. Carrera Cup is stand alone category that pays big money to CAMS for that right and will stay that way. There a lots of Porsches not eligible for that series and the many soon to be superceded model that can and would contribute large numbers to a general sportscar series. The only thing preventing that is CAMS .In collusion with the APDC/GT groups they have come up with such a narrow range of eligible cars so as to be riduculously impractical. Why they refused to examine other options is beyond comprehension.In spite of that the Intermarque Challenge seems to have the concept but CAMS will not allow it.

[abr944]

its to do with category management rights.......the intermarque series is a series of events held at various tracks....NOT a national series....get it????...that probably why cams is against it..

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by silver 2

DRT you need to note. Carrera Cup is stand alone category that pays big money to CAMS for that right and will stay that way. There a lots of Porsches not eligible for that series and the many soon to be superceded model that can and would contribute large numbers to a general sportscar series. The only thing preventing that is CAMS .In collusion with the APDC/GT groups they have come up with such a narrow range of eligible cars so as to be riduculously impractical. Why they refused to examine other options is beyond comprehension.In spite of that the Intermarque Challenge seems to have the concept but CAMS will not allow it.

I am aware of the current situation. I was just speaking about the ideal situation for GT racing in Australia.

There might be alot of Porsche's not eligble for CC, however the $$$ and competitor numbers tied into CC is what caused the beginning of the demise of Nations Cup and will continue to hamper the sustainability of another GT championship existing in Australia.

So in thinking for the future and its growth, we are going to have to plead to Cams to have them see the sense and benefits of having 1 strong GT championship.

[silver 2]

CAMS have their own vision(or should I say lack of) and what they see as their commercial obligations to those paying them. What is hard to understand is why they would(will) not look at other ideas and proposals. I have talked to the Intermarque organisers a lot recently and that is how they explained it.What astouds me is that what could be a sensational interesting class is deniedthat chance.Given the previous farce in Nations Cup it makes you wonder what some have actually learnt.

[stmookeyj033]

Originally Posted by abr944

i have the pi entry list....22 cars...total...that means besides the porsches...only about 8 gt cars.......of that 22....5 to 6 will not show...go figure!!!

And the entry list is?

[mixxer]

Has anybody got a schedule for this Saturday at PI ?

The AMRS website has nothing listed in the event schedule section
http://amrs.ozspeed.net/e_timetable.php?Eid=140

[silver 2]

The first round 8 are Rusty French -- Lambo Peter Hacket???? -- Lambo
Ted Huglin Ferrrari 360 Gt, Darcy Russell-- Viper, John Teulan-- Ferrari360C
Dean Savage-- Ferrari 360 C,Geoff Munday--- Mustang, Ian Palmer -- Honda
In addition cars running in the Australian porshe Drivers Challenge that are eligible are -- Mark Eddy-- GT3R , Bryce Washington GT3 Cup, Greg Ward GT3 Cup, John Kaias GT3, Simon Middleton GT3.Not confirmed Hacket but kept hearing it.
The shame of all this is that there could be 2 or 3 times the number on the grid if a fifferent approach was taken.

[silver 2]

The first round 8 are Rusty French -- Lambo Peter Hacket???? -- Lambo
Ted Huglin Ferrrari 360 Gt, Darcy Russell-- Viper, John Teulan-- Ferrari360C
Dean Savage-- Ferrari 360 C,Geoff Munday--- Mustang, Ian Palmer -- Honda
In addition cars running in the Australian porshe Drivers Challenge that are eligible are -- Mark Eddy-- GT3R , Bryce Washington GT3 Cup, Greg Ward GT3 Cup, John Kaias GT3, Simon Middleton GT3.Not confirmed Hacket but kept hearing it.
The shame of all this is that there could be 2 or 3 times the number on the grid if a different approach was taken.